4 ms·

Very interesting! I (female; 57 y.o.) have been doing an intermittent fast (2 days/week: typically Tue/Thu) for >2.5 years now. I picked those days as they do

Very interesting! I (female; 57 y.o.) have been doing an intermittent fast (2 days/week: typically Tue/Thu) for >2.5 years now. I picked those days as they don't interfere with social events, weekends, long weekends. I initially did 500 calories on those days, but for more than a year now I simply don't eat at all on those days (but I drink coffee, tea). I find that much easier, as the hunger pangs are largely absent. Benefits from this fasting include an epigenetic reprogramming (perhaps?) of some stem cells, as from the outset I've seen a few of the very few gray hairs that I have revert back to brown (white further out; brown more recently to root). That could be triggered (or entirely due to) e.g. by autophagy of the old, weakened cells and their replacement by rejuvenated cells. Interesting, nonetheless. Body weight is stabilized around the new metabolic set point (I record this daily in a tab-delimited file, that I can easily plot with a simple linux command (alias gp='echo "gnuplot -p /mnt/Vancouver/Programming/scripts/gnuplot/plot.gp')! On non-diet days I eat whatever I want (I ashould add, pretty sensible: mostly home-made food, meals), ad libitum. ;-) Plot: https://imgur.com/a/e3ahbtQ https://imgur.com/a/e3ahbtQ

andreareina 8y ago
Good progress! I understand blurring the y-axis, though I'm curious about how large those up/down swings are. Have you considered using an exponentially-weighted average to smooth out the noise in the measurements? It's just $ f(x_n) = f(x_{n-1}) * (1 - alpha) + x_n * alpha , f(x_0) = x_0 $ where 0 < alpha < 1 (lower values give a smoother graph but lags more) Here's a quick sketch of how to do it in gnuplot without having to preprocess the data: # Getting previous values via https://stackoverflow.com/a/25753509/5921362 alpha = 0.1 prev = 0 shift(x) = (prev = x) ewma(prev, cur) = shift(prev * (1 - alpha) + cur * alpha) plot data using 1:2 with p,\ data using 1:(prev < 1 ? shift($2) : ewma(prev, $2)) with l
- vstuart 8y ago
  Since I'm really not that careful during non-diet days (some foods such as home-made chicken pot pies or pizzas etc.) can result in "significant" gains (2-3%) and other items my gf sometimes brings over (potato chips; ice cream; ...). Short answer: that week-to-week swing ranges ~4.5% of overall body weight. I try to limit (within reason) processed synthetic fake foods like margarine, Canola (lifeless, NaOH/heat-treated, hexane-extracted, bleached, deoderized "food") in favor of known-sourced, i.e. non-fake EVOO (look for the oleocanthal-induced burn at the back of the throat: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110118180514.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110118180514.ht...), butter, etc. I make my own bread, yogurt -- again for control of what goes into them. But overall, not obsessed with any of that. I like to keep it simple; those preparations take minutes not hours ... :-p * [How It's Made - Canola Oil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs) Detrimental health effects: * [Canola oil linked to worsened memory and learning ability in Alzheimer's](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171207141624.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171207141624.h...) * [Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropathology in the triple transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3) Edit: thank you for the plotting comments (I heart these: I love all things tech, programmatic, bio*); I just wanted a quick way to see my overall progress over time. I enter my morning weight (digital scale) daily, and occasionally plot it (Ctrl-Alt-T shortcut to terminal; "gp" bashrc alias to run that plot command, "qq" to quit the terminal). ;-)
dipro 8y ago
Wow - I (male; 45 y.o.) have done virtually the same (2 days/week fast, Tue and Fri, no food intake, only drinks - mostly water, sometimes coffee, rarely some orange juice; on non-fast days ate without restriction) for one year now. The curve looks quite similar: https://imgur.com/a/H4pKkNv https://imgur.com/a/H4pKkNv What I find interesting is your mention of a metabolic set point. Wanted to lose a bit more weight (since I still have visceral fat), but couldn't manage to do so. It seems I hit a hard barrier - any caloric deficit during fasting days was magically compensated exactly on non-fasting days; I tried to reduce caloric intake on non-fasting days, but while fasting a whole day isn't that difficult for me, restricting calories while eating seems to only work when my body has met a magical internal quota. It seems indeed to be a set point. The small uptick beginning of June was when I skipped a fast day once. I'm a bit scared what would happen if I stopped fasting altogether now. Would be interesting to understand more about the set point - however, some research on the net didn't yield much substantial info. It seems it exists, but how it works exactly and how it can be moved is unclear. And even if trying to move it makes sense. Maybe the set point is ideal health-wise, and is overridden on unhealthy caloric surplus diets...?
- fifnir 8y ago
  Have you tried or considered a low-carb high-fat diet in the non fasting days? Maybe keeping your insulin levels relatively low, you can reduce the effect of the insulin cycle on your appetite
- CuriousSkeptic 8y ago
  Perhaps this will help https://idmprogram.com/tag/body-set-weight/ https://idmprogram.com/tag/body-set-weight/
- a1369209993 8y ago
  > while fasting a whole day isn't that difficult for me, restricting calories while eating seems to only work when my body has met a magical internal quota. One dirty trick to try is, just after eating, to drink about two tablespoons of staight "extra-light" olive oil. It's a bit foul, but makes for a effective way of ruining your appetite. Other "bland food diet" tricks might also work. (I'd like to mention that I do not support healthy diets, but my design to work against anything nature intends takes priority.) Edit: two tablespoons, not eight, and apparently they make low-fat olive oil now.
agumonkey 8y ago
How much time before you started to adapt and not eat on Tue/Thu ? kudos for your fasting and thanks for the comment
- vstuart 8y ago
  You're welcome! Honestly, I adapted almost instantly. When I first started the IF, it was harder the first few times (just your body getting used to it), then I was fine. I do get somewhat peckish, more so later on the Thu diet day, but I have strong will-power (indeed, I've yet to miss a week during the past 2.5+ years, but that's just due to discipline, not regimented: I think it'll be ok to miss some period of time, e.g. due to vacations or illness). Comparing to 500 calorie days to to zero-calorie days, the latter are definitely easier. My added rationale is that if starving weakened cells kills them (whether or not that is true, then so much the better. Overall, I am in excellent health, but I've lived a reasonably healthy lifestyle (exercise: walking mostly later years; nonsmoker; v. v. occasional social drinker; ...). :-) Ancillary benefit: reduced grocery bills! :-P
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    Thanks, I will try a 2 day IF too. I also had a quite healthy lifestyle, so hopefully the change will be smooth enough.

andreareina 8y ago

Good progress! I understand blurring the y-axis, though I'm curious about how large those up/down swings are. Have you considered using an exponentially-weighted average to smooth out the noise in the measurements? It's just $ f(x_n) = f(x_{n-1}) * (1 - alpha) + x_n * alpha , f(x_0) = x_0 $ where 0 < alpha < 1 (lower values give a smoother graph but lags more) Here's a quick sketch of how to do it in gnuplot without having to preprocess the data: # Getting previous values via https://stackoverflow.com/a/25753509/5921362 alpha = 0.1 prev = 0 shift(x) = (prev = x) ewma(prev, cur) = shift(prev * (1 - alpha) + cur * alpha) plot data using 1:2 with p,\ data using 1:(prev < 1 ? shift($2) : ewma(prev, $2)) with l

vstuart 8y ago
Since I'm really not that careful during non-diet days (some foods such as home-made chicken pot pies or pizzas etc.) can result in "significant" gains (2-3%) and other items my gf sometimes brings over (potato chips; ice cream; ...). Short answer: that week-to-week swing ranges ~4.5% of overall body weight. I try to limit (within reason) processed synthetic fake foods like margarine, Canola (lifeless, NaOH/heat-treated, hexane-extracted, bleached, deoderized "food") in favor of known-sourced, i.e. non-fake EVOO (look for the oleocanthal-induced burn at the back of the throat: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110118180514.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110118180514.ht...), butter, etc. I make my own bread, yogurt -- again for control of what goes into them. But overall, not obsessed with any of that. I like to keep it simple; those preparations take minutes not hours ... :-p * [How It's Made - Canola Oil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs) Detrimental health effects: * [Canola oil linked to worsened memory and learning ability in Alzheimer's](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171207141624.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171207141624.h...) * [Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropathology in the triple transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3) Edit: thank you for the plotting comments (I heart these: I love all things tech, programmatic, bio*); I just wanted a quick way to see my overall progress over time. I enter my morning weight (digital scale) daily, and occasionally plot it (Ctrl-Alt-T shortcut to terminal; "gp" bashrc alias to run that plot command, "qq" to quit the terminal). ;-)

dipro 8y ago

Wow - I (male; 45 y.o.) have done virtually the same (2 days/week fast, Tue and Fri, no food intake, only drinks - mostly water, sometimes coffee, rarely some orange juice; on non-fast days ate without restriction) for one year now. The curve looks quite similar: https://imgur.com/a/H4pKkNv https://imgur.com/a/H4pKkNv What I find interesting is your mention of a metabolic set point. Wanted to lose a bit more weight (since I still have visceral fat), but couldn't manage to do so. It seems I hit a hard barrier - any caloric deficit during fasting days was magically compensated exactly on non-fasting days; I tried to reduce caloric intake on non-fasting days, but while fasting a whole day isn't that difficult for me, restricting calories while eating seems to only work when my body has met a magical internal quota. It seems indeed to be a set point. The small uptick beginning of June was when I skipped a fast day once. I'm a bit scared what would happen if I stopped fasting altogether now. Would be interesting to understand more about the set point - however, some research on the net didn't yield much substantial info. It seems it exists, but how it works exactly and how it can be moved is unclear. And even if trying to move it makes sense. Maybe the set point is ideal health-wise, and is overridden on unhealthy caloric surplus diets...?

fifnir 8y ago
Have you tried or considered a low-carb high-fat diet in the non fasting days? Maybe keeping your insulin levels relatively low, you can reduce the effect of the insulin cycle on your appetite
CuriousSkeptic 8y ago
Perhaps this will help https://idmprogram.com/tag/body-set-weight/ https://idmprogram.com/tag/body-set-weight/
a1369209993 8y ago
> while fasting a whole day isn't that difficult for me, restricting calories while eating seems to only work when my body has met a magical internal quota. One dirty trick to try is, just after eating, to drink about two tablespoons of staight "extra-light" olive oil. It's a bit foul, but makes for a effective way of ruining your appetite. Other "bland food diet" tricks might also work. (I'd like to mention that I do not support healthy diets, but my design to work against anything nature intends takes priority.) Edit: two tablespoons, not eight, and apparently they make low-fat olive oil now.

agumonkey 8y ago

How much time before you started to adapt and not eat on Tue/Thu ? kudos for your fasting and thanks for the comment

vstuart 8y ago
You're welcome! Honestly, I adapted almost instantly. When I first started the IF, it was harder the first few times (just your body getting used to it), then I was fine. I do get somewhat peckish, more so later on the Thu diet day, but I have strong will-power (indeed, I've yet to miss a week during the past 2.5+ years, but that's just due to discipline, not regimented: I think it'll be ok to miss some period of time, e.g. due to vacations or illness). Comparing to 500 calorie days to to zero-calorie days, the latter are definitely easier. My added rationale is that if starving weakened cells kills them (whether or not that is true, then so much the better. Overall, I am in excellent health, but I've lived a reasonably healthy lifestyle (exercise: walking mostly later years; nonsmoker; v. v. occasional social drinker; ...). :-) Ancillary benefit: reduced grocery bills! :-P
- agumonkey 8y ago
  Thanks, I will try a 2 day IF too. I also had a quite healthy lifestyle, so hopefully the change will be smooth enough.