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I wish this article had provides a link to a comparison between the different hand sanitizing methods. OK, so alcohol-based sanitizer isn't great. How does it

I wish this article had provides a link to a comparison between the different hand sanitizing methods. OK, so alcohol-based sanitizer isn't great. How does it compare to plain old soap and water? What about foaming liquid soap? How does the big gun of Hibiclens work out nowadays?

AngryData 8y ago
Soap and water doesn't directly kill the bacteria, it dissolves the oils and lipids that that they live in and washes them away. Some die, but if bacteria was humans, using soap and water is the equivalent of causing a landslide and just clearing the entire surface of the area of anything but dirt/skin and dumping the people/bacteria off the cliff and down the drain.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > it dissolves the oils and lipids that that they live And out of which bacteria membranes are made.
chiefalchemist 8y ago
I think there's a (obvious) difference between anti-bacterials and standard hygiene. We know these organisms adapt, just as they did to (oral) antibiotics. Is there any biological reason why hand sanitizers would be any different?
- Fomite 8y ago
  The key to all adaptive mechanisms is that they have to not kill the bacteria as well. The mechanism of action for hand sanitizers is to disrupt the lipid membrane - it's possible no adaptation exists to make a lipid membrane resistance to high concentrations of alcohol (or other surfactants) that also still renders it a workable membrane. The current resistance mechanisms in the study are mostly efflux pumps, which again, may not be expressible to save a bacteria when alcohol is present at volume. Even most antibiotic resistance mechanisms are not actually a binary "Works/Doesn't Work" but rather can fight off the antibiotics at the concentration they're delivered in.
eigenstuff 8y ago
As someone with compulsive skin picking who gets LOTS of staph infections, Hibiclens combined with tubes of muciprocin left over from the occasional infection I couldn't knock out myself has saved me easily hundreds in copays (and lots of sunburns from doxycycline). That stuff is miracles in a bottle, I will not travel without it, every household should have some on hand. As soon as something starts getting red and hard and painful, I Hibiclens those sins away before it can even THINK about getting streaky, and within hours it looks and feels SO much better. Plus, it doesn't burn or sting like other antiseptics!

AngryData 8y ago

Soap and water doesn't directly kill the bacteria, it dissolves the oils and lipids that that they live in and washes them away. Some die, but if bacteria was humans, using soap and water is the equivalent of causing a landslide and just clearing the entire surface of the area of anything but dirt/skin and dumping the people/bacteria off the cliff and down the drain.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> it dissolves the oils and lipids that that they live And out of which bacteria membranes are made.

chiefalchemist 8y ago

I think there's a (obvious) difference between anti-bacterials and standard hygiene. We know these organisms adapt, just as they did to (oral) antibiotics. Is there any biological reason why hand sanitizers would be any different?

Fomite 8y ago
The key to all adaptive mechanisms is that they have to not kill the bacteria as well. The mechanism of action for hand sanitizers is to disrupt the lipid membrane - it's possible no adaptation exists to make a lipid membrane resistance to high concentrations of alcohol (or other surfactants) that also still renders it a workable membrane. The current resistance mechanisms in the study are mostly efflux pumps, which again, may not be expressible to save a bacteria when alcohol is present at volume. Even most antibiotic resistance mechanisms are not actually a binary "Works/Doesn't Work" but rather can fight off the antibiotics at the concentration they're delivered in.

eigenstuff 8y ago

As someone with compulsive skin picking who gets LOTS of staph infections, Hibiclens combined with tubes of muciprocin left over from the occasional infection I couldn't knock out myself has saved me easily hundreds in copays (and lots of sunburns from doxycycline). That stuff is miracles in a bottle, I will not travel without it, every household should have some on hand. As soon as something starts getting red and hard and painful, I Hibiclens those sins away before it can even THINK about getting streaky, and within hours it looks and feels SO much better. Plus, it doesn't burn or sting like other antiseptics!