4 ms·

Best printer decision I've ever made was to buy a Brother laser printer. It's like going from a flip phone to a smart phone. I rarely print anything, but when

by jdlyga 8y ago

Best printer decision I've ever made was to buy a Brother laser printer. It's like going from a flip phone to a smart phone. I rarely print anything, but when I do it's reliable, fast, and very easy to use. I buy toner maybe once every few years.

mikestew 8y ago
I think it's like going from a smart phone to a flip phone (reverse of what you said). I don't need your big-ass driver package, your HP ColarSmartz Fotoz app, your constant pop ups about ink being low, yes, again. I want to not think about you. Whereas with our Brother laser printer, I couldn't tell you the last time I bought toner, or gave that printer much thought at all other than grabbing a sheet off the print tray.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Why are printer drivers still a thing in 2018 in the Windows world? I make sure the printer supports AirPrint and "it just works" with Macs, and my IOS devices -- including my ancient circa 2010 iPad that hasn't seen an update in 7 years (yeah I got a newer iPad also).
  - krylon 8y ago
    My job currently is mostly programming, but until about a year ago, it was mostly sysadmin and helpdesk monkey for a small-ish company (~75 users). In this time I have had enough inexplicable printer-related problems, that my views on printing are no longer fit for a public forum. If I could, I would go Office Space on each and every one of those hellish machines. But I need to remember, it's not the printer's fault, it's Windows - on GNU/Linux, printing has Just Worked(tm) for me for the last ... about ten years. Once upon a time I was reduced to converting my print jobs to the printer's native language with Ghostscript and then cat(1) the resulting files (one per page) to the printer's device file. But then came CUPS, and while some people still complain that GNU/Linux is not suitable for desktop use, when it comes to printing the experience is lightyears ahead of Windows.
    - mikestew 8y ago
      I think that's where the parent was coming from. If you're used to using Macs (plug printer in, OS says, "a Brother L12B4, amirite? Cool, gimme a minute..."), and you go hook a new printer to a Windows box, the experience is going to make you go "'dafuq?" Why it has to be the way it is on Windows is a mystery to me. I'm sure there's a reason, and it's probably a completely understandable one ("decisions made in 1989, and backcompat"), but it drives me nuts when I have to deal with it.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Btw, Apple has owned CUPS since 2002 - 3 years after it was released in beta.
    - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
      It is the printer manufacturers fault, Windows has had class based drivers since Vista (they could even be back ported to XP although that didn't wok very well). There is nothing in Windows that forces them to ship all the crap that sits in your notify area and bungs up your system.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        If I understand what you’re saying - that still requires printer manufacturers to write and users to install printers. I have three printers at home (long story). I bring a Mac home, connect it to my network and it finds all three and I can immediately start printing. I bring home a Windows PC, I have to install printer drivers for three printers.
        krylon 8y ago
        Well, I figure with CUPS (the printer system currently used by macOS and GNU/Linux and other open source Un_x systems), it is the responsibility of CUPS to support printers, while on Windows, it is the responsibility of printer manufacturers to supply drivers for their printers. Well, guess what - vendor-supplied drivers suck donkey-balls, while third-party drivers (as supplied by CUPS or GhostScript) focus on supporting the functionality the printer in question provides and nothing else. It's the same as with GPUs, except that printers are (AFAICT) less complicated than GPUs. In theory, Windows can do some things you can not replicate on GNU/Linux and/or macOS without major pain - e.g. that client submit their print jobs in b/w unless specifically requested otherwise (because on our support contract, color printing costs ~10x as much per page as b/w). In practice, though, it works about as reliably as trying to photograph a specific star in the sky while blindfolded and with - at best - a fuzzy idea what day it is. People keep telling me that Windows is a superior OS for desktop systems because it "just works", but clearly those people do not do a lot of printing. ;-)
  - hakfoo 8y ago
    It feels like we majorly lost the ball with PostScript (or something similar). Move the smarts to the printer, and then you don't really need a model-specific driver any more. I suspect the real story is that per-device drivers allow you to patch around a lot of stupid or wrong behavior on the hardware side, and on the low end, let the host do most of the image processing so the printer itself can be little more than a bag of dumb stepper motors and servos.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Microsoft has been able to guide other aspects of PC hardware since at least 1995. I don’t need drivers for most other hardware. You can even get basic functionality from graphics cards without drivers. When Apple convinced printer manufacturers to support AirPrint in 2010, iOS wasn’t nearly as ubiquitous. You can find a fair amount of printers that support Google Cloud Print natively. EDIT: After reading a little bit more. It really is the fault of the vendors. MS tried to simplify it. https://blog.thinprint.com/the-new-microsoft-v4-printer-driver-model/ https://blog.thinprint.com/the-new-microsoft-v4-printer-driv... One advantage Apple had was that printers had to be compatible with AirPrint without drivers for them to work on iOS, the Mac was able to piggyback off of that.
- leetbulb 8y ago
  Also have a Brother laser printer. I got one on sale a few years ago for about the same price as an inkjet cartridge. Haven't had to replace the toner since I purchased it. It was definitely the best office investment I've ever made.
js2 8y ago
Worst printer decision I've ever made was to buy a Brother laser printer. The fusing roller deteriorated within a year and the warranty replacement process was more trouble than it was worth. I gave up after several back-and-forth interactions with their customer support that weren't going anywhere. The best printer decision I've ever made is my current printer, an HP OfficeJet 8620 with an ink subscription program. This HP has printed 9620 trouble-free pages since I purchased it a bit over two years ago (May, 2016). Yes, the per-page cost is relatively expensive, but it's the least hassle I've ever had with a printer. New ink just magically shows up in the mail shortly before I need it and I mail the old cartridges back for recycling. I haven't heard "honey/dad, the printer is broken/jammed/out-of-ink/won't-print again" since I purchased it. My first printer was an Apple thermal printer, my second an Epson MX 100, so I've dealt with _a lot_ of printers over the years, from Apple, Epson, Canon, Brother, HP, and maybe other brands I'm forgetting. I previously tried things like bulk ink tanks and refilling toner cartridges. Not worth the hassle. I'm glad you're happy with your Brother. Mine had great initial reviews, but then when I checked back on Amazon a year later other folks has the same fuser roller issue: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R16HGOAIYLS1IJ/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00BQU141C https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R16HGOAIYLS1IJ/re... Maybe it was specific to that model (HL-3170CDW). I don't know.
- swiley 8y ago
  Wow that's weird, I have two and many of my friends have them and none of us have ever had an issue. We might have different models though.
- jacob019 8y ago
  I second this. My company went through a dozen brothers before switching to HP and Xerox. Brother printers are fine for occasional use but they don't hold up for daily office use.
- pratumlabs 8y ago
  Unfortunately, your experience with the HL-3170CDW is extremely common. We had it happen and it is very well documented on Amazon. We found an Australian company that detailed the issue in their "fault of the week" page: http://fixitfastelectronics.com/mfc9330cdw-9140cdn-emboss.htm http://fixitfastelectronics.com/mfc9330cdw-9140cdn-emboss.ht... The TLDR there is that the HL-3170CDW has a sharper-than-normal lift off angle from the fuser roller (the part that fails). Inexpensive toner is more sticky than the Brother-brand toner, so it causes undue fatigue on the part. We had this same issue happen to us about 1000 pages after switching to an ultra-cheap, pour-in toner option. We first replaced the roller with a cheap one from Ebay that ended up causing the printer to overheat. Then we bought a custom manufactured roller from the aforementioned Australian company. That one has lasted us more than 3000 page so far, even with the cheap toner. Note: if you elect to change the roller yourself, don't touch the heating element / bulb inside of the roller with your fingers!
MiddleEndian 8y ago
My best printer decision is to just not have a printer. Once a year when I need to print something at home I go to a print shop. Obviously some people need to print a lot of stuff but I'd wager half the people with home printers would be better off without.
mc32 8y ago
I like the brothers but i don't appreciate how they declare they are out of toner when they still have a couple of hundred pages left when you “reset” the toners.

by jdlyga 8y ago

mikestew 8y ago

I think it's like going from a smart phone to a flip phone (reverse of what you said). I don't need your big-ass driver package, your HP ColarSmartz Fotoz app, your constant pop ups about ink being low, yes, again. I want to not think about you. Whereas with our Brother laser printer, I couldn't tell you the last time I bought toner, or gave that printer much thought at all other than grabbing a sheet off the print tray.

scarface74 8y ago
Why are printer drivers still a thing in 2018 in the Windows world? I make sure the printer supports AirPrint and "it just works" with Macs, and my IOS devices -- including my ancient circa 2010 iPad that hasn't seen an update in 7 years (yeah I got a newer iPad also).
- krylon 8y ago
  My job currently is mostly programming, but until about a year ago, it was mostly sysadmin and helpdesk monkey for a small-ish company (~75 users). In this time I have had enough inexplicable printer-related problems, that my views on printing are no longer fit for a public forum. If I could, I would go Office Space on each and every one of those hellish machines. But I need to remember, it's not the printer's fault, it's Windows - on GNU/Linux, printing has Just Worked(tm) for me for the last ... about ten years. Once upon a time I was reduced to converting my print jobs to the printer's native language with Ghostscript and then cat(1) the resulting files (one per page) to the printer's device file. But then came CUPS, and while some people still complain that GNU/Linux is not suitable for desktop use, when it comes to printing the experience is lightyears ahead of Windows.
  - mikestew 8y ago
    I think that's where the parent was coming from. If you're used to using Macs (plug printer in, OS says, "a Brother L12B4, amirite? Cool, gimme a minute..."), and you go hook a new printer to a Windows box, the experience is going to make you go "'dafuq?" Why it has to be the way it is on Windows is a mystery to me. I'm sure there's a reason, and it's probably a completely understandable one ("decisions made in 1989, and backcompat"), but it drives me nuts when I have to deal with it.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Btw, Apple has owned CUPS since 2002 - 3 years after it was released in beta.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    It is the printer manufacturers fault, Windows has had class based drivers since Vista (they could even be back ported to XP although that didn't wok very well). There is nothing in Windows that forces them to ship all the crap that sits in your notify area and bungs up your system.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      If I understand what you’re saying - that still requires printer manufacturers to write and users to install printers. I have three printers at home (long story). I bring a Mac home, connect it to my network and it finds all three and I can immediately start printing. I bring home a Windows PC, I have to install printer drivers for three printers.
      - krylon 8y ago
        Well, I figure with CUPS (the printer system currently used by macOS and GNU/Linux and other open source Un_x systems), it is the responsibility of CUPS to support printers, while on Windows, it is the responsibility of printer manufacturers to supply drivers for their printers. Well, guess what - vendor-supplied drivers suck donkey-balls, while third-party drivers (as supplied by CUPS or GhostScript) focus on supporting the functionality the printer in question provides and nothing else. It's the same as with GPUs, except that printers are (AFAICT) less complicated than GPUs. In theory, Windows can do some things you can not replicate on GNU/Linux and/or macOS without major pain - e.g. that client submit their print jobs in b/w unless specifically requested otherwise (because on our support contract, color printing costs ~10x as much per page as b/w). In practice, though, it works about as reliably as trying to photograph a specific star in the sky while blindfolded and with - at best - a fuzzy idea what day it is. People keep telling me that Windows is a superior OS for desktop systems because it "just works", but clearly those people do not do a lot of printing. ;-)
- hakfoo 8y ago
  It feels like we majorly lost the ball with PostScript (or something similar). Move the smarts to the printer, and then you don't really need a model-specific driver any more. I suspect the real story is that per-device drivers allow you to patch around a lot of stupid or wrong behavior on the hardware side, and on the low end, let the host do most of the image processing so the printer itself can be little more than a bag of dumb stepper motors and servos.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Microsoft has been able to guide other aspects of PC hardware since at least 1995. I don’t need drivers for most other hardware. You can even get basic functionality from graphics cards without drivers. When Apple convinced printer manufacturers to support AirPrint in 2010, iOS wasn’t nearly as ubiquitous. You can find a fair amount of printers that support Google Cloud Print natively. EDIT: After reading a little bit more. It really is the fault of the vendors. MS tried to simplify it. https://blog.thinprint.com/the-new-microsoft-v4-printer-driver-model/ https://blog.thinprint.com/the-new-microsoft-v4-printer-driv... One advantage Apple had was that printers had to be compatible with AirPrint without drivers for them to work on iOS, the Mac was able to piggyback off of that.
leetbulb 8y ago
Also have a Brother laser printer. I got one on sale a few years ago for about the same price as an inkjet cartridge. Haven't had to replace the toner since I purchased it. It was definitely the best office investment I've ever made.

js2 8y ago

Worst printer decision I've ever made was to buy a Brother laser printer. The fusing roller deteriorated within a year and the warranty replacement process was more trouble than it was worth. I gave up after several back-and-forth interactions with their customer support that weren't going anywhere. The best printer decision I've ever made is my current printer, an HP OfficeJet 8620 with an ink subscription program. This HP has printed 9620 trouble-free pages since I purchased it a bit over two years ago (May, 2016). Yes, the per-page cost is relatively expensive, but it's the least hassle I've ever had with a printer. New ink just magically shows up in the mail shortly before I need it and I mail the old cartridges back for recycling. I haven't heard "honey/dad, the printer is broken/jammed/out-of-ink/won't-print again" since I purchased it. My first printer was an Apple thermal printer, my second an Epson MX 100, so I've dealt with _a lot_ of printers over the years, from Apple, Epson, Canon, Brother, HP, and maybe other brands I'm forgetting. I previously tried things like bulk ink tanks and refilling toner cartridges. Not worth the hassle. I'm glad you're happy with your Brother. Mine had great initial reviews, but then when I checked back on Amazon a year later other folks has the same fuser roller issue: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R16HGOAIYLS1IJ/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00BQU141C https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R16HGOAIYLS1IJ/re... Maybe it was specific to that model (HL-3170CDW). I don't know.

swiley 8y ago
Wow that's weird, I have two and many of my friends have them and none of us have ever had an issue. We might have different models though.
jacob019 8y ago
I second this. My company went through a dozen brothers before switching to HP and Xerox. Brother printers are fine for occasional use but they don't hold up for daily office use.
pratumlabs 8y ago
Unfortunately, your experience with the HL-3170CDW is extremely common. We had it happen and it is very well documented on Amazon. We found an Australian company that detailed the issue in their "fault of the week" page: http://fixitfastelectronics.com/mfc9330cdw-9140cdn-emboss.htm http://fixitfastelectronics.com/mfc9330cdw-9140cdn-emboss.ht... The TLDR there is that the HL-3170CDW has a sharper-than-normal lift off angle from the fuser roller (the part that fails). Inexpensive toner is more sticky than the Brother-brand toner, so it causes undue fatigue on the part. We had this same issue happen to us about 1000 pages after switching to an ultra-cheap, pour-in toner option. We first replaced the roller with a cheap one from Ebay that ended up causing the printer to overheat. Then we bought a custom manufactured roller from the aforementioned Australian company. That one has lasted us more than 3000 page so far, even with the cheap toner. Note: if you elect to change the roller yourself, don't touch the heating element / bulb inside of the roller with your fingers!

MiddleEndian 8y ago

My best printer decision is to just not have a printer. Once a year when I need to print something at home I go to a print shop. Obviously some people need to print a lot of stuff but I'd wager half the people with home printers would be better off without.

mc32 8y ago

I like the brothers but i don't appreciate how they declare they are out of toner when they still have a couple of hundred pages left when you “reset” the toners.