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It seems like every day somebody has figured out how to beat type 2 diabetes. I just read Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis who advocates a vegan lifestyle (whil

by user9182031 8y ago

It seems like every day somebody has figured out how to beat type 2 diabetes. I just read Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis who advocates a vegan lifestyle (while telling you that carbs are not the enemy) to cure diabetes.

teekert 8y ago
Carbohydrates come in many forms, simple ones like sugar make your blood sugar spike and this is widely considered bad (and what leads to diabetes type 2). Complex ones take very long to digest, some can even only be digested by your microbiome, deep in your gut, those carbohydrates make for a consistent, stable, small flow of sugar to the blood. Which is considered a good thing. Try eating oats (no sugar, just yogurt and fruit for sweetening, don't get tricked into thinking honey or brown sugar is healthy sugar ;) I personally like strawberry or pomegranate but the latter is pretty expensive even in-season). Or try heavy whole wheat bread (with something like peanut-only peanut butter) and see how much longer it takes before you get hungry again, compare it to breakfast cereals or white bread. I really notice the difference. If you like sweet, try backing a cake from oats and banana (and some flour, pancakes of oat and banana are also very nice by the way), perhaps add some nuts as well. Works great for me (results of delayed hunger in the day are immediate, which is motivating). Oats are cheap, bananas generally as well.
- fencepost 8y ago
  It's worth being aware that milk and milk products can actually have a pretty significant amount of sugar in the form of lactose. "If you're lactose intolerant and looking for yogurt, go Greek. Greek yogurt, which is thicker because much of the whey, the watery part of milk, has been strained out in processing. This also removes much of the lactose. Greek yogurt supplies less than 6.8 grams of lactose per 6-ounce serving, compared to less than 8.5 grams in whole-fat yogurt or 14 grams in non-fat yogurt. Hard cheeses such as cheddar have even less lactose, between 0 to 2 grams per ounce. Milk, in comparison, has approximately 11 grams in one cup." (from https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-lactose-intolerant-eat-yogurt-aged-cheese-6130.html https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-lactose-intolerant-eat-...)
camelNotation 8y ago
There are a lot of ways to look at that, but I think what all these "cures" have in common is that they drastically reduce the amount of sugar in your diet and allow the body to essentially rest and reset its insulin response. I don't think it really matters how you do it as long as you do that.
- cageface 8y ago
  Note that protein also provokes an insulin response. This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index
  - bad_user 8y ago
    > This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti. That's bullshit, but yes, proteins do provoke an insulin response, which can be unhealthy with enough proteins. Note however that proteins != fat and fat does not provoke an insulin response. And yes, for diabetics fat meat is healthier than lean meat. Also note that fat and proteins keep you satisfied for longer, so you end up eating less meals per day. This is not about calories, but about the insulin response. If you keep eating, the insulin does not go down.
    - jackhack 8y ago
      Can we please keep YC a civil place without the entirely unnecessary profanity which is pervasive everywhere else? It's fine to disagree; but do so based on the strength of your argument and facts.
    - cageface 8y ago
      This is a direct measurement of blood insulin levels. It's not somebody's opinion. Complex carbs are extremely satiating and plenty of people have reversed type 2 diabetes eating high carb diets.
  - Zimahl 8y ago
bad_user 8y ago
Our metabolism is very complex. But if it's not backed up by studies and science, it doesn't count. Type 2 diabetes is defined by insulin resistance. The only way to "beat" type 2 diabetes is to lower your insulin resistance and thus to lower your insulin response. At the moment you can only lower your insulin with lifestyle changes that implies fasting + eating a diet that triggers a low insulin response. The vegan lifestyle is high in carbs. What many people don't understand is that there are only 3 macro-nutrients: proteins, fats and carbs. You cannot do a low carbs diet without at least eggs and diary. And carbs stimulate insulin. Note that there are clinics that have successfully treated people of diabetes via fasting. Here's one: https://idmprogram.com/ https://idmprogram.com/ N.B. carbohydrates are not the enemy, but _refined carbohydrates_ are and unfortunately for a type 2 diabetic it's too late to switch to healthy carbs. Yes, a potato is healthy, however for a diabetic it is basically poison.
- teekert 8y ago
  Complex carbs (fibers or at least carbohydrates that are slowly digested) do not stimulate insulin production as far as I know. I think it is very important to realize that there are different types of carbohydrates. You need fuel (carbs/sugars), you just don't need them to get rushed into your blood at breakneck speeds requiring massive insulin dosages to bring it back down. You want them supplied slowly and steadily to your blood during the day and night. Which is what happens when your body and your gut microbes slowly degrade complex carbs into smaller constituents, such as sugars.
- moate 8y ago
  Point of order: Many nutritionists would disagree with your definition of a macronutrient. If you're talking about bio-energy sources, you're leaving out Alcohol, which is metabolized differently than Carbs. If you're talking "things your body needs in great volume" water, fiber and antioxidants should be on the list. Sorry, this is just a pet-peeve about how the Fitness/bodybuilding community talk about "macros".
- com2kid 8y ago
  There are people doing vegan keto. It is theoretically possible. I imagine it is the most boring diet in the world though. :) From what I've heard vegetarian Keto isn't too bad. I'd worry about getting healthy oils on a vegan keto diet, healthy vegetable oils get expensive very fast. Most keto diets don't pay much attention to fat sources, but while lots of canola oil technically meets the macros, it'd not be healthy at all...
supernovae 8y ago
I went vegan for 5 years, my cholesterol kept getting worse in every way. Now i do keto, and my cholesterol is happy. Diabetes wasn't my direct concern but i find it interesting how eating a ton of eggs every day has improved my balance.
godshatter 8y ago
I'm fine living in a world where there are many ways to "beat" type 2 diabetes. Intermittent fasting (I eat one meal a day) has dropped my A1C from 8.9 to 5.5 (probably less, now). I've been doing this for about 15 months so far. My type 2 diabetes is not cured, if I drop off the diet and go back to my old habits my A1C will undoubtedly go right back up. But it's an easy diet to live with, especially since I don't limit myself and can eat whatever I want, though given the choice I'll try to reduce the worst refined carbs. The high carb / low fat diet isn't one of the ways to beat type 2, though, and it's still the one pushed by many dieticians.

teekert 8y ago

Carbohydrates come in many forms, simple ones like sugar make your blood sugar spike and this is widely considered bad (and what leads to diabetes type 2). Complex ones take very long to digest, some can even only be digested by your microbiome, deep in your gut, those carbohydrates make for a consistent, stable, small flow of sugar to the blood. Which is considered a good thing. Try eating oats (no sugar, just yogurt and fruit for sweetening, don't get tricked into thinking honey or brown sugar is healthy sugar ;) I personally like strawberry or pomegranate but the latter is pretty expensive even in-season). Or try heavy whole wheat bread (with something like peanut-only peanut butter) and see how much longer it takes before you get hungry again, compare it to breakfast cereals or white bread. I really notice the difference. If you like sweet, try backing a cake from oats and banana (and some flour, pancakes of oat and banana are also very nice by the way), perhaps add some nuts as well. Works great for me (results of delayed hunger in the day are immediate, which is motivating). Oats are cheap, bananas generally as well.

fencepost 8y ago
It's worth being aware that milk and milk products can actually have a pretty significant amount of sugar in the form of lactose. "If you're lactose intolerant and looking for yogurt, go Greek. Greek yogurt, which is thicker because much of the whey, the watery part of milk, has been strained out in processing. This also removes much of the lactose. Greek yogurt supplies less than 6.8 grams of lactose per 6-ounce serving, compared to less than 8.5 grams in whole-fat yogurt or 14 grams in non-fat yogurt. Hard cheeses such as cheddar have even less lactose, between 0 to 2 grams per ounce. Milk, in comparison, has approximately 11 grams in one cup." (from https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-lactose-intolerant-eat-yogurt-aged-cheese-6130.html https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-lactose-intolerant-eat-...)

camelNotation 8y ago

There are a lot of ways to look at that, but I think what all these "cures" have in common is that they drastically reduce the amount of sugar in your diet and allow the body to essentially rest and reset its insulin response. I don't think it really matters how you do it as long as you do that.

cageface 8y ago
Note that protein also provokes an insulin response. This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index
- bad_user 8y ago
  > This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti. That's bullshit, but yes, proteins do provoke an insulin response, which can be unhealthy with enough proteins. Note however that proteins != fat and fat does not provoke an insulin response. And yes, for diabetics fat meat is healthier than lean meat. Also note that fat and proteins keep you satisfied for longer, so you end up eating less meals per day. This is not about calories, but about the insulin response. If you keep eating, the insulin does not go down.
  - jackhack 8y ago
    Can we please keep YC a civil place without the entirely unnecessary profanity which is pervasive everywhere else? It's fine to disagree; but do so based on the strength of your argument and facts.
  - cageface 8y ago
    This is a direct measurement of blood insulin levels. It's not somebody's opinion. Complex carbs are extremely satiating and plenty of people have reversed type 2 diabetes eating high carb diets.
- Zimahl 8y ago

bad_user 8y ago

Our metabolism is very complex. But if it's not backed up by studies and science, it doesn't count. Type 2 diabetes is defined by insulin resistance. The only way to "beat" type 2 diabetes is to lower your insulin resistance and thus to lower your insulin response. At the moment you can only lower your insulin with lifestyle changes that implies fasting + eating a diet that triggers a low insulin response. The vegan lifestyle is high in carbs. What many people don't understand is that there are only 3 macro-nutrients: proteins, fats and carbs. You cannot do a low carbs diet without at least eggs and diary. And carbs stimulate insulin. Note that there are clinics that have successfully treated people of diabetes via fasting. Here's one: https://idmprogram.com/ https://idmprogram.com/ N.B. carbohydrates are not the enemy, but _refined carbohydrates_ are and unfortunately for a type 2 diabetic it's too late to switch to healthy carbs. Yes, a potato is healthy, however for a diabetic it is basically poison.

teekert 8y ago
Complex carbs (fibers or at least carbohydrates that are slowly digested) do not stimulate insulin production as far as I know. I think it is very important to realize that there are different types of carbohydrates. You need fuel (carbs/sugars), you just don't need them to get rushed into your blood at breakneck speeds requiring massive insulin dosages to bring it back down. You want them supplied slowly and steadily to your blood during the day and night. Which is what happens when your body and your gut microbes slowly degrade complex carbs into smaller constituents, such as sugars.
moate 8y ago
Point of order: Many nutritionists would disagree with your definition of a macronutrient. If you're talking about bio-energy sources, you're leaving out Alcohol, which is metabolized differently than Carbs. If you're talking "things your body needs in great volume" water, fiber and antioxidants should be on the list. Sorry, this is just a pet-peeve about how the Fitness/bodybuilding community talk about "macros".
com2kid 8y ago
There are people doing vegan keto. It is theoretically possible. I imagine it is the most boring diet in the world though. :) From what I've heard vegetarian Keto isn't too bad. I'd worry about getting healthy oils on a vegan keto diet, healthy vegetable oils get expensive very fast. Most keto diets don't pay much attention to fat sources, but while lots of canola oil technically meets the macros, it'd not be healthy at all...

supernovae 8y ago

I went vegan for 5 years, my cholesterol kept getting worse in every way. Now i do keto, and my cholesterol is happy. Diabetes wasn't my direct concern but i find it interesting how eating a ton of eggs every day has improved my balance.

godshatter 8y ago

I'm fine living in a world where there are many ways to "beat" type 2 diabetes. Intermittent fasting (I eat one meal a day) has dropped my A1C from 8.9 to 5.5 (probably less, now). I've been doing this for about 15 months so far. My type 2 diabetes is not cured, if I drop off the diet and go back to my old habits my A1C will undoubtedly go right back up. But it's an easy diet to live with, especially since I don't limit myself and can eat whatever I want, though given the choice I'll try to reduce the worst refined carbs. The high carb / low fat diet isn't one of the ways to beat type 2, though, and it's still the one pushed by many dieticians.