4 ms·

Frugal implies you are sacrificing quality or desire in the name of money. Minimalist implies you find joy in simpler things and a simpler life and therefore do

by city41 16y ago

Frugal implies you are sacrificing quality or desire in the name of money. Minimalist implies you find joy in simpler things and a simpler life and therefore don't need or even want outlandish luxury. I'm just as content sleeping at a Best Western as I am at a 5 star hotel. My Scion gets me to the grocery store just as well as a BMW would, etc. I'm not sacrificing anything, I simply don't feel a need for excessive luxury. And I agree with the OP of this thread. Thanks to my minimalist lifestyle I too have plenty of leeway to do whatever I want for quite some time. It's a great feeling.

gaius 16y ago
OK but minimalist could also be a Patek Phillippe Calatrava instead of an all-singing all-dancing Casio Pathfinder...
- tome 16y ago
  Very good point. Sometimes minimalism is a lot more expensive.
- hugh3 16y ago
  In other words, if you feel like congratulating yourself on your minimalism, you can pretty much justify anything as minimalist. Personally I'd say that the minimalist wristwatch option is none at all. I don't think I'd be happier with no wristwatches, though. While my wristwatches bring me only a minimal amount of pleasure, congratulating myself on my lack of wristwatches wouldn't bring me much pleasure either. I prefer "vaguely appropriate scale"-ism to minimalism. No wristwatches is too few, ten is too many. Pick something in between and stop fretting.
fragmede 16y ago
Minimalism implies the things you have are truly things you actually need, and not just the latest fashionable fad of the week. If you're hosting client meetings, the Best Western isn't going have as nice a set of facilities as a 5-star hotel. If you're on a race track, your Scion sucks compared to a BMW, etc. You are sacrificing. The important point is you're cognizant of the sacrifices (a BMW time around a racetrack is irrelevant to your Scion getting you to the grocery store). A macbook pro is a luxury, but absolutely justifiable if you do development on it all day long.
- city41 16y ago
  For sure, if I'm hosting client meetings then I have an honest need for the better facilities. But if I'm just going out of town and just need a place to crash, the Best Western is more than adequate.
roel_v 16y ago
"Scion gets me to the grocery store just as well as a BMW would" This is not a good example of minimalism and in contradiction with your earlier statement that "Frugal implies you are sacrificing quality or desire in the name of money" (I infer you were contrasting with minimalism here) A BMW is a lot higher quality than cheap cars, not necessarily 'excessive luxury'. It can be simple, depending on the configuration. One can find minimalist joy in a very expensive BMW. 'Just getting to the grocery store' is not about minimalism, it's about frugality. It's not because something is expensive that it's 'excessive'. Actually simple, high-quality products are often more expensive then cheap trinkets. To have a lot of leeway, one leads a frugal lifestyle to save money. A minimalist lifestyle isn't necessarily a cheap lifestyle.
- city41 16y ago
  I suppose we could debate this all day. My point is to me the luxury of a car is not very important. Indeed it's not important at all. I feel other people also feel that way, but feel like they "should" buy a BMW just because they can afford it. I'm not sacrificing anything here because the extra luxury I don't have and the status it would represent are both irrelevant to me. I've made no real sacrifice with the Scion. It's made by Toyota and is a very high quality, dependable car. It will serve me well for many years. That's all a car needs to be in my eyes. For things that are important to me, sure, I buy the best I can afford. But only a very small number of things are truly important to me. I suppose my definition of minimalism is just truly getting what you need, nothing more or less. I feel no need to "keep up with the Jonses", and overall just don't feel compelled to "be a good consumer". I agree a minimalist lifestyle is not necessarily a cheaper lifestyle. I totally agree with that. But I do feel a minimalist lifestyle can be cheaper if your desires and needs just happen to work out that way, which in my case I generally feel they do.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    Yes, it boils down to a definition matter, which isn't very interesting. I try to live my life in a 'minimalist' way, because I feel less clutter makes for a more serene life. Still, making money is quite important to me, if only for the security it represents. On the other hand I also sometimes wonder if I'm spending enough to optimize life joy; I drive a small Citroen Saxo but I'm regularly annoyed by the small amount of space in it, and the inconvenience that it has only 3 doors. I guess my point is that it's surprisingly hard to walk the line between stinginess (a generally negative trait) and minimalism (a generally positive trait).

by city41 16y ago

gaius 16y ago

OK but minimalist could also be a Patek Phillippe Calatrava instead of an all-singing all-dancing Casio Pathfinder...

tome 16y ago
Very good point. Sometimes minimalism is a lot more expensive.
hugh3 16y ago
In other words, if you feel like congratulating yourself on your minimalism, you can pretty much justify anything as minimalist. Personally I'd say that the minimalist wristwatch option is none at all. I don't think I'd be happier with no wristwatches, though. While my wristwatches bring me only a minimal amount of pleasure, congratulating myself on my lack of wristwatches wouldn't bring me much pleasure either. I prefer "vaguely appropriate scale"-ism to minimalism. No wristwatches is too few, ten is too many. Pick something in between and stop fretting.

fragmede 16y ago

Minimalism implies the things you have are truly things you actually need, and not just the latest fashionable fad of the week. If you're hosting client meetings, the Best Western isn't going have as nice a set of facilities as a 5-star hotel. If you're on a race track, your Scion sucks compared to a BMW, etc. You are sacrificing. The important point is you're cognizant of the sacrifices (a BMW time around a racetrack is irrelevant to your Scion getting you to the grocery store). A macbook pro is a luxury, but absolutely justifiable if you do development on it all day long.

city41 16y ago
For sure, if I'm hosting client meetings then I have an honest need for the better facilities. But if I'm just going out of town and just need a place to crash, the Best Western is more than adequate.

roel_v 16y ago

"Scion gets me to the grocery store just as well as a BMW would" This is not a good example of minimalism and in contradiction with your earlier statement that "Frugal implies you are sacrificing quality or desire in the name of money" (I infer you were contrasting with minimalism here) A BMW is a lot higher quality than cheap cars, not necessarily 'excessive luxury'. It can be simple, depending on the configuration. One can find minimalist joy in a very expensive BMW. 'Just getting to the grocery store' is not about minimalism, it's about frugality. It's not because something is expensive that it's 'excessive'. Actually simple, high-quality products are often more expensive then cheap trinkets. To have a lot of leeway, one leads a frugal lifestyle to save money. A minimalist lifestyle isn't necessarily a cheap lifestyle.

city41 16y ago
I suppose we could debate this all day. My point is to me the luxury of a car is not very important. Indeed it's not important at all. I feel other people also feel that way, but feel like they "should" buy a BMW just because they can afford it. I'm not sacrificing anything here because the extra luxury I don't have and the status it would represent are both irrelevant to me. I've made no real sacrifice with the Scion. It's made by Toyota and is a very high quality, dependable car. It will serve me well for many years. That's all a car needs to be in my eyes. For things that are important to me, sure, I buy the best I can afford. But only a very small number of things are truly important to me. I suppose my definition of minimalism is just truly getting what you need, nothing more or less. I feel no need to "keep up with the Jonses", and overall just don't feel compelled to "be a good consumer". I agree a minimalist lifestyle is not necessarily a cheaper lifestyle. I totally agree with that. But I do feel a minimalist lifestyle can be cheaper if your desires and needs just happen to work out that way, which in my case I generally feel they do.
- roel_v 16y ago
  Yes, it boils down to a definition matter, which isn't very interesting. I try to live my life in a 'minimalist' way, because I feel less clutter makes for a more serene life. Still, making money is quite important to me, if only for the security it represents. On the other hand I also sometimes wonder if I'm spending enough to optimize life joy; I drive a small Citroen Saxo but I'm regularly annoyed by the small amount of space in it, and the inconvenience that it has only 3 doors. I guess my point is that it's surprisingly hard to walk the line between stinginess (a generally negative trait) and minimalism (a generally positive trait).