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I heard a really good interpretation of this recently. In all these infinite universes, surely there's one where there's an ice cube in the middle of the sun,

I heard a really good interpretation of this recently. In all these infinite universes, surely there's one where there's an ice cube in the middle of the sun, since that's one possible configuration of matter. But no! There's no story that ends with an ice-cube in the middle of the sun. There's no sequence of events that could have resulted in that so it's not in the space of possible universes.

Confusion 8y ago
Why do you believe there is no sequence of events that could end with an ice cube in the middle of a sun? One scenario I would not rule out is a large icy comet moving at large speed straight for a sun. Is there no combination of size and speed for which that would result in a small ice cube in the centre of a sun?
- skriticos2 8y ago
  Hm, it would probably not be cube shaped though. But I agree, we could even calculate that one. It would certainly be an interesting spectacle. Going back to the sequence of events argument, I think that implies that all universes agree on similar rules like ours (Physics), as we could only deduce this kind of argument with this assumption. Maybe there is a universe where ice is scorching hot and all sun cores consist of it, and as matter cools it evaporates? Maybe there is even a universe where gravity and orbital mechanics work in a way to produce cube shaped stellar bodies?
Razengan 8y ago
To play with that idea a little, imagine the ability to instantly teleport across space or even universes. If you teleport a block of ice to coordinates which happen to be smack dab inside a star, then maybe for an instant, like a single "tick" of the processing engine, there would be an ice cube in the middle of the sun.
Retric 8y ago
Physically it’s possible for a ice cube to show up in the center of the sun. Each nucleus in the center of the sun is stripped it’s electrons but that’s the average view in shorter time frames they can have all of those electrons just very briefly. Three such atoms could collide just right and form a water molecule in the center of the sun. From their it’s just increasingly unlikely situations but that’s not enough in the face of unlimited random variations.
octosphere 8y ago
Yes but there could be a universe with weird physics that could permit an ice-cube to be in the center of the sun, and not just briefly, but for a substantial amount of time.
- SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
  > there could be a universe with weird physics that could permit an ice-cube to be in the center of the sun Could there be? This assumes that 1) different universes have different physics 2) there is at least 1 self-consistent rules of physics that allows this. I suspect that this is a harder problem. It's fair to say that if our universe has uniform physics, then even if it is infinite, there are no solar ice-cubes anywhere in it.
  - octosphere 8y ago
    > This assumes that > 1) different universes have different physics Yes this is the presumption. Remember infinity allows all possible skewing of our current physics and all possible permutations of it. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
    - SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
      > Remember infinity allows all possible skewing of our current physics and all possible permutations of it. No, it does not. Compare: > If there are infinite numbers, and all numbers have a name, then there must exist a number with a different kind of name to the usual ones. > If there are infinite universes, and all universes have laws of physics, then there must be universes with different laws of physics. It's the same basic fallacy. There might universes with different physics but it does not follow from infinity.

Confusion 8y ago

Why do you believe there is no sequence of events that could end with an ice cube in the middle of a sun? One scenario I would not rule out is a large icy comet moving at large speed straight for a sun. Is there no combination of size and speed for which that would result in a small ice cube in the centre of a sun?

skriticos2 8y ago
Hm, it would probably not be cube shaped though. But I agree, we could even calculate that one. It would certainly be an interesting spectacle. Going back to the sequence of events argument, I think that implies that all universes agree on similar rules like ours (Physics), as we could only deduce this kind of argument with this assumption. Maybe there is a universe where ice is scorching hot and all sun cores consist of it, and as matter cools it evaporates? Maybe there is even a universe where gravity and orbital mechanics work in a way to produce cube shaped stellar bodies?

Razengan 8y ago

To play with that idea a little, imagine the ability to instantly teleport across space or even universes. If you teleport a block of ice to coordinates which happen to be smack dab inside a star, then maybe for an instant, like a single "tick" of the processing engine, there would be an ice cube in the middle of the sun.

Retric 8y ago

Physically it’s possible for a ice cube to show up in the center of the sun. Each nucleus in the center of the sun is stripped it’s electrons but that’s the average view in shorter time frames they can have all of those electrons just very briefly. Three such atoms could collide just right and form a water molecule in the center of the sun. From their it’s just increasingly unlikely situations but that’s not enough in the face of unlimited random variations.

octosphere 8y ago

Yes but there could be a universe with weird physics that could permit an ice-cube to be in the center of the sun, and not just briefly, but for a substantial amount of time.

SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
> there could be a universe with weird physics that could permit an ice-cube to be in the center of the sun Could there be? This assumes that 1) different universes have different physics 2) there is at least 1 self-consistent rules of physics that allows this. I suspect that this is a harder problem. It's fair to say that if our universe has uniform physics, then even if it is infinite, there are no solar ice-cubes anywhere in it.
- octosphere 8y ago
  > This assumes that > 1) different universes have different physics Yes this is the presumption. Remember infinity allows all possible skewing of our current physics and all possible permutations of it. Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
  - SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
    > Remember infinity allows all possible skewing of our current physics and all possible permutations of it. No, it does not. Compare: > If there are infinite numbers, and all numbers have a name, then there must exist a number with a different kind of name to the usual ones. > If there are infinite universes, and all universes have laws of physics, then there must be universes with different laws of physics. It's the same basic fallacy. There might universes with different physics but it does not follow from infinity.