6 ms·

Ask HN: Copying already existing product and making it better

37 points by fandorin 8y ago

hi, I was wondering if any of you have successfully copied* already existing product and created its better version and, as a result, ended up with a successful startup. * I am talking about the situation when you are using some tool and thinking to yourself: 'well, it's working, but there are at least 10 things that can be improved, maybe I will create the better version of it?'

templar_muse 8y ago
Whereas no one would openly admit to copying a product and naming that company publicly - it could be said that many products were birthed from different perceptions of a solution from a given problem space. Which, by virtue of convergent evolution though common customer requirements/user stories and focus groups, along with a standardisation of UX practices, end up with a largely overlapping feature base.
- sbr464 8y ago
  I think it happens a lot with forks or seeds of similar projects like you mention, Sugar crm > vtiger crm m0n0wall > pfsense/freenas I do think some products rely on copying the entire ui/ux a little too heavily. Although with standardization like you mention as well may become less of an issue
matt_the_bass 8y ago
Gitlab vs github?
- thsowers 8y ago
  Just to piggyback off of this comment, IMO sometimes the original offers significant advantages that the copies can't attain Example: I want to love Gitlab but no matter the additional offerings they provide, I am totally sold on the UX of Github. Stumble along a new project? Instantly see what language(s) it is written in. Why isn't this a feature of Gitlab when this is so basic? Wonder if it's a copyright issue
  - Boulth 8y ago
    As far as I have heard you can't copyright UX (but don't quote me). I think the issue is something else: GitLab thinks more features is what will give them competitive advantage over Github in the long term, not clean UX.
    - gitgud 8y ago
      Well I'm pretty sure you can copyright UX. Didn't someone get sued from copying Apple's swipe to unlock feature?
  - matt_the_bass 8y ago
    I wasn’t trying to imply that one is better than the other. Only an example of a new company trying to offer very similar product to an existing company.
vannevar 8y ago
You've literally described Steve Jobs' entire career. Finding the key tweaks that turn a good product into a great product is a very effective business strategy, but actually pulling it off is an art.
insomniacity 8y ago
Don't forget that while you work on your copy, their product is probably also advancing - by the time you're finished, you will have more to do - plus your own improvements.
amorphous 8y ago
Everything is a remix. The problem is, blindly copying just the features of a product is most likely not going to work. You need to understand the whole business and figure out what to copy and what to improve. In other words: you need to understand the customer. Something to read: - "Copycats: How Smart Companies Use Imitation to Gain a Strategic Edge" - https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/08/03/down-with-innovation-up-with-imitation/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/08/03/down-with-innovation-u...
- fandorin 8y ago
  thanks! I will definitely read this!
Kagerjay 8y ago
There's no such thing as originality in many cases. Everything is based off of something else. Many video games and books have similar plotlines. I had to do research for CRM systems for a nonprofit and there's like over 100 of them. I'm sure they are all different in some way shape or form, but I don't know enough about CRM's to say anything here. There's a really good writeup of a european company called "Rocket" that does exactly this, it was mentioned in hackernews somewhere before https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-clone-factory https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-clone-factory I have an app idea I wish to pursue that doesn't yet exist, but its the merger between 2 common pieces of software in the market. Building it would be a huge time saver in things I struggle everyday, I imagine others would feel so as well. I couldn't find anything in any alternatives I've tried and tested.
- octosphere 8y ago
  Don't let the patent trolls read this comment. Whilst I agree that everything is borrowed and inspired from something else, there can still be blatant rip offs. If you're going to steal like this, at least change it a little bit so it's not a direct copy.
  - Kagerjay 8y ago
    Everything about this app I want to build is going to be completely unique on the UX/UI interface, I had 15 pages of hand drawn sketches dedicated in just wireframing the UX. I lack some backend knowledge and some frontend technology as well, so its a long work in progress. I think, whenever we think of elevator pitches, people always say "Its Whatsapp with security(telegram)". Or its "Facebook for professionals (linkedin)". Its "Youtube for media professionals (vimeo)". Or its "Adobe Illustrator merged with Adobe Photoshop (Affinity Designer)". Or "Slack with VoIP and gaming (Discord)". Or "A chrome browser for Developers(Blisk)". Or "Pinterest for media professionals (Dribbble)". Everything derives from something else, but I agree with you everything needs to be unique. But at the end of the day everything is a CRUD app anyhow
tothrowaway 8y ago
That's my bread-and-butter. I take a good SaaS and strip it down so it's simpler for people to use (and for me to build). Then I sell it for significantly less than my competitor. Simple & cheap is "better" for some people. The trick is to find a good niche, so you can build a bunch of semi-related SaaS apps and cross market them. I've found developer related SaaS (web browser testing, PDF generation, log analysis, cron notifications, etc) are highly saturated. To be fair, none of my products qualify as "startups". But building a lifestyle business has a lot of perks (no stress).
- RikNieu 8y ago
  What kinds kind of general niches do you target,if I may ask? Fitness, health,fintech?
- segmondy 8y ago
  Hey, I'm interested in this. Can you please reach out to me via my email later in my profile?

37 points by fandorin 8y ago

templar_muse 8y ago

Whereas no one would openly admit to copying a product and naming that company publicly - it could be said that many products were birthed from different perceptions of a solution from a given problem space. Which, by virtue of convergent evolution though common customer requirements/user stories and focus groups, along with a standardisation of UX practices, end up with a largely overlapping feature base.

sbr464 8y ago
I think it happens a lot with forks or seeds of similar projects like you mention, Sugar crm > vtiger crm m0n0wall > pfsense/freenas I do think some products rely on copying the entire ui/ux a little too heavily. Although with standardization like you mention as well may become less of an issue

matt_the_bass 8y ago

Gitlab vs github?

thsowers 8y ago
Just to piggyback off of this comment, IMO sometimes the original offers significant advantages that the copies can't attain Example: I want to love Gitlab but no matter the additional offerings they provide, I am totally sold on the UX of Github. Stumble along a new project? Instantly see what language(s) it is written in. Why isn't this a feature of Gitlab when this is so basic? Wonder if it's a copyright issue
- Boulth 8y ago
  As far as I have heard you can't copyright UX (but don't quote me). I think the issue is something else: GitLab thinks more features is what will give them competitive advantage over Github in the long term, not clean UX.
  - gitgud 8y ago
    Well I'm pretty sure you can copyright UX. Didn't someone get sued from copying Apple's swipe to unlock feature?
- matt_the_bass 8y ago
  I wasn’t trying to imply that one is better than the other. Only an example of a new company trying to offer very similar product to an existing company.

vannevar 8y ago

You've literally described Steve Jobs' entire career. Finding the key tweaks that turn a good product into a great product is a very effective business strategy, but actually pulling it off is an art.

insomniacity 8y ago

Don't forget that while you work on your copy, their product is probably also advancing - by the time you're finished, you will have more to do - plus your own improvements.

amorphous 8y ago

Everything is a remix. The problem is, blindly copying just the features of a product is most likely not going to work. You need to understand the whole business and figure out what to copy and what to improve. In other words: you need to understand the customer. Something to read: - "Copycats: How Smart Companies Use Imitation to Gain a Strategic Edge" - https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/08/03/down-with-innovation-up-with-imitation/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/08/03/down-with-innovation-u...

fandorin 8y ago
thanks! I will definitely read this!

Kagerjay 8y ago

There's no such thing as originality in many cases. Everything is based off of something else. Many video games and books have similar plotlines. I had to do research for CRM systems for a nonprofit and there's like over 100 of them. I'm sure they are all different in some way shape or form, but I don't know enough about CRM's to say anything here. There's a really good writeup of a european company called "Rocket" that does exactly this, it was mentioned in hackernews somewhere before https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-clone-factory https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-clone-factory I have an app idea I wish to pursue that doesn't yet exist, but its the merger between 2 common pieces of software in the market. Building it would be a huge time saver in things I struggle everyday, I imagine others would feel so as well. I couldn't find anything in any alternatives I've tried and tested.

octosphere 8y ago
Don't let the patent trolls read this comment. Whilst I agree that everything is borrowed and inspired from something else, there can still be blatant rip offs. If you're going to steal like this, at least change it a little bit so it's not a direct copy.
- Kagerjay 8y ago
  Everything about this app I want to build is going to be completely unique on the UX/UI interface, I had 15 pages of hand drawn sketches dedicated in just wireframing the UX. I lack some backend knowledge and some frontend technology as well, so its a long work in progress. I think, whenever we think of elevator pitches, people always say "Its Whatsapp with security(telegram)". Or its "Facebook for professionals (linkedin)". Its "Youtube for media professionals (vimeo)". Or its "Adobe Illustrator merged with Adobe Photoshop (Affinity Designer)". Or "Slack with VoIP and gaming (Discord)". Or "A chrome browser for Developers(Blisk)". Or "Pinterest for media professionals (Dribbble)". Everything derives from something else, but I agree with you everything needs to be unique. But at the end of the day everything is a CRUD app anyhow

tothrowaway 8y ago

That's my bread-and-butter. I take a good SaaS and strip it down so it's simpler for people to use (and for me to build). Then I sell it for significantly less than my competitor. Simple & cheap is "better" for some people. The trick is to find a good niche, so you can build a bunch of semi-related SaaS apps and cross market them. I've found developer related SaaS (web browser testing, PDF generation, log analysis, cron notifications, etc) are highly saturated. To be fair, none of my products qualify as "startups". But building a lifestyle business has a lot of perks (no stress).

RikNieu 8y ago
What kinds kind of general niches do you target,if I may ask? Fitness, health,fintech?
segmondy 8y ago
Hey, I'm interested in this. Can you please reach out to me via my email later in my profile?