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Not to an extent that would satisfy you if you are looking to play harasser's advocate. Any concrete case is for the courts to decide. But, roughly: If you wou

Not to an extent that would satisfy you if you are looking to play harasser's advocate. Any concrete case is for the courts to decide. But, roughly: If you would greet anyone in the same situation (man, woman, child, beautiful or ugly, old or young), then you can greet the person. France has not outlawed greeting your colleagues in the office. On the other hand, if you would not greet everyone in the same situation, you are a harasser. You do not greet random people in the Paris métro. Thus, if you greet an attractive woman in the Paris métro... well, I don't know if you are technically a harasser under this law, but just don't do it. It's not hard, you know how to do it with other people. You do not "make dirty noises, comments and whistle" at men in the street. Please don't do that to women either? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/30/uproar-in-france-over-video-of-woman-marie-laguerre-hit-by-harasser-in-paris-street https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/30/uproar-in-fran...

flukus 8y ago
> Thus, if you greet an attractive woman in the Paris métro... well, I don't know if you are technically a harasser under this law, but just don't do it. It's not hard, you know how to do it with other people. So you can't ask people you don't know out on a date? That's harassment now?
- tom_mellior 8y ago
  Context is key. In a bar, it might be OK. (This is not a blank cheque I'm giving you, you still need to think about a lot of things!) In the métro, I'd say yes, in almost all cases it would be unwanted. Unwanted forced interactions with strangers are harassment. Yes, it's sad that you may lose the love of your life this way. It's sadder that many women lose their actual lives over this kind of thing.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  Like the other poster said, context is key. Strike up a conversation with a person you don't know, enjoy it, and want to talk to them more? Ask away. And bars and things might be appropriate so long as you quit if they say no. The main thing with the "random person you've never spoken to" is this: It might be something you do from time to time. It might be something she deals with once or twice a week - or daily. You might be respectful and asking, but many others aren't. If you haven't even had a brief conversation, she likely knows it is all based on looks and absolutely nothing about her personality. You won't personally be harassing her, no. But overlooking this stuff is being ignorant of how she might be treated on a daily basis and it can make you part of the problem, depending on the context of the situation. It isn't like it is hard to simply move on: You likely do this with people that aren't prospective dates in your eyes.
TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
I dunno about you, but I actually enjoy being able to speak to strangers at the metro without getting labelled a harasser. I'd be happy to speak with any of those demographics that you mentioned during a trip. Admittedly, I probably wouldn't engage with a young child, outside of smiling at them, because I'd be worried of being labelled a sex offender of some sort, despite the fact that I would never even come close to considering doing something like that. I'm a male, so I do enjoy engaging with attractive women, but I don't limit my interactions to them. Now it turns out I can only engage with anyone EXCEPT women? Do you really fail to see how that could also be harmful to women? Have you really never made a new friend while on a train? I've seen a lot of negative news about France lately, that it's getting to the point that I might never see myself visting there, despite knowing it would probably have lot to offer in terms of experiences. Where do you draw the line? I think I'm a fairly reasonable individual, and if I speak with someone I'll cut it short if they seem uncomfortable... But it seems pretty crazy that you could have someone call the cops on you just for striking up a conversation.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  If you greet them with similar intros, especially with non-sexual topics, great. Take cues when the chatter isn't welcome and stop? Great. Things like this and you are safe. Bonus points if you apologise. Seriously, cat-calling is a different beast entirely. nothing like walking down the street to pass a group of men who exclaim very loudly, "Well, she was ugly in front but look at that ass!" I had a customer literally drool forget his sentences every time he saw me. He'd follow me around the store and talk to me. Other folks would step in. He left me a card - at work! - telling me he'd stop, but also exclaiming how sexy I was and how much he adored me. I had asked him to stop. He had noticed I disappeared when he came into the store. He finally did stop, but it took months of discomfort. I had a boss that would "accidentally" brush up against my breasts or ass. Small place with no recourse, and I had to quit. There is a lot of area between these two, and I think it should be quite obvious that they are wrong, but it happens nonetheless. There is a huge difference between a nice chat or nicely asking someone out in a way that respects them and this sort of stuff. Save for the one dude that probably thought I was a prostitute, folks in Amsterdam treated me better (I was there for a fun weekend alone, spouse stayed home) - including the dude that propositioned me after chatting in the coffee shop. He was really respectful and simply asked. I talk to random people on planes and other places willingly. Most conversation is fine so long as the other person is reasonable, and halts when I ask the conversation to stop.

flukus 8y ago

> Thus, if you greet an attractive woman in the Paris métro... well, I don't know if you are technically a harasser under this law, but just don't do it. It's not hard, you know how to do it with other people. So you can't ask people you don't know out on a date? That's harassment now?

tom_mellior 8y ago
Context is key. In a bar, it might be OK. (This is not a blank cheque I'm giving you, you still need to think about a lot of things!) In the métro, I'd say yes, in almost all cases it would be unwanted. Unwanted forced interactions with strangers are harassment. Yes, it's sad that you may lose the love of your life this way. It's sadder that many women lose their actual lives over this kind of thing.
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
Like the other poster said, context is key. Strike up a conversation with a person you don't know, enjoy it, and want to talk to them more? Ask away. And bars and things might be appropriate so long as you quit if they say no. The main thing with the "random person you've never spoken to" is this: It might be something you do from time to time. It might be something she deals with once or twice a week - or daily. You might be respectful and asking, but many others aren't. If you haven't even had a brief conversation, she likely knows it is all based on looks and absolutely nothing about her personality. You won't personally be harassing her, no. But overlooking this stuff is being ignorant of how she might be treated on a daily basis and it can make you part of the problem, depending on the context of the situation. It isn't like it is hard to simply move on: You likely do this with people that aren't prospective dates in your eyes.

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago

I dunno about you, but I actually enjoy being able to speak to strangers at the metro without getting labelled a harasser. I'd be happy to speak with any of those demographics that you mentioned during a trip. Admittedly, I probably wouldn't engage with a young child, outside of smiling at them, because I'd be worried of being labelled a sex offender of some sort, despite the fact that I would never even come close to considering doing something like that. I'm a male, so I do enjoy engaging with attractive women, but I don't limit my interactions to them. Now it turns out I can only engage with anyone EXCEPT women? Do you really fail to see how that could also be harmful to women? Have you really never made a new friend while on a train? I've seen a lot of negative news about France lately, that it's getting to the point that I might never see myself visting there, despite knowing it would probably have lot to offer in terms of experiences. Where do you draw the line? I think I'm a fairly reasonable individual, and if I speak with someone I'll cut it short if they seem uncomfortable... But it seems pretty crazy that you could have someone call the cops on you just for striking up a conversation.

Broken_Hippo 8y ago
If you greet them with similar intros, especially with non-sexual topics, great. Take cues when the chatter isn't welcome and stop? Great. Things like this and you are safe. Bonus points if you apologise. Seriously, cat-calling is a different beast entirely. nothing like walking down the street to pass a group of men who exclaim very loudly, "Well, she was ugly in front but look at that ass!" I had a customer literally drool forget his sentences every time he saw me. He'd follow me around the store and talk to me. Other folks would step in. He left me a card - at work! - telling me he'd stop, but also exclaiming how sexy I was and how much he adored me. I had asked him to stop. He had noticed I disappeared when he came into the store. He finally did stop, but it took months of discomfort. I had a boss that would "accidentally" brush up against my breasts or ass. Small place with no recourse, and I had to quit. There is a lot of area between these two, and I think it should be quite obvious that they are wrong, but it happens nonetheless. There is a huge difference between a nice chat or nicely asking someone out in a way that respects them and this sort of stuff. Save for the one dude that probably thought I was a prostitute, folks in Amsterdam treated me better (I was there for a fun weekend alone, spouse stayed home) - including the dude that propositioned me after chatting in the coffee shop. He was really respectful and simply asked. I talk to random people on planes and other places willingly. Most conversation is fine so long as the other person is reasonable, and halts when I ask the conversation to stop.