3 ms·

Have a listen to the Java Posse this last week, #325. The new platform architect seems to think Java is in better hands, for the greater community too. How do

Have a listen to the Java Posse this last week, #325. The new platform architect seems to think Java is in better hands, for the greater community too. How do you simply dismiss Oracle as having a culture of engineering? Are the products bad? Is it simply that the corporation wants to profit? Is it the lack of hacker's names and faces on products? Is it the cost of the products or that they don't do something that they claim or should do? I'd assert that they might be so good at engineering that it's no longer sexy to talk about it with them and they've matured so far beyond hacking that the names and faces aren't important. Have you ever used any Sun hardware and then maybe a similar vintage IBM or HP piece of hardware?

8ren 16y ago
It's well-known that Oracle isn't a technology company, but one that uses technology. It's not that their engineers are bad in any way, it's just that that's not a focus of the company as an organization. Instead, technology becomes a background issue (or a hygiene factor, as some economists call it.) It has to work, it has to be good; but it's not what makes the company go - they don't depend on Research and Development to produce a stream of new products. Any new tech they get is bought, via acquisition; and it is followed up only if it is of immediate value to their existing customers. They aren't creating new markets either (though recently they've bought some life sciences companies, which is a big branch out, and might shake up the health care sector in interesting ways.) Of course, once upon a time, they created the very first commercial relational database, before even IBM (where Codd invented it.) But in the following decades, Oracle didn't keep on developing entirely new technologies. Sun, IBM and HP all have or had strong engineering traditions (in particular HP used to, though not so much today.) Other examples with strong engineering are Sony, Nintendo, Adobe, TI, Intel and Apple. Another business company, like Oracle, is SAP. It's not intended as an insult, just a description of a company's approach. IBM has certainly moved much closer to that these days, it's almost a consulting company (like the big accounting firms), and its R&D has become very directed towards their client's immediate needs - at least, that's what they said at a presentation a few years ago. I've read of Mark Reinhold's comments about what's happening with Java now (but not listened to that specific podcast.) He made an interesting point about the JRockit tech (acquired from BEA.) Let me ask you: is it realistic to imagine the new platform architect not saying positive things on this point, given his job and employer? If he thought otherwise, would he be given the job, with its significant Public Relations component (which is what that podcast is, from Oracle's perspective)? In my view, I'm just stating well-known and accepted facts that I think Oracle itself would agree with. Can you tell me why you don't agree, please? You seem a little angry about it, too. I think it's possible you have misinterpreted me.
- 8ren 16y ago
  High technology is a little like some pacific islands, that are formed from magma swelling up from the depths of the earth. At first, they are desolate and empty, but life quickly colonizes them. You can live in paradise, eating the fruit, and riding the huge waves, serene and zen-like or yelling righteous! righteous! As others come, some set themselves up as kings, living in grand huts, riding the people and telling them what to do. Until one day, the earth opens up again and molten rock flows out, destroying the works of man, destroying whole islands and creating others. I want to be absolutely clear on this next point: engineers in no way control or direct this wave of lava. They surf it.

8ren 16y ago

It's well-known that Oracle isn't a technology company, but one that uses technology. It's not that their engineers are bad in any way, it's just that that's not a focus of the company as an organization. Instead, technology becomes a background issue (or a hygiene factor, as some economists call it.) It has to work, it has to be good; but it's not what makes the company go - they don't depend on Research and Development to produce a stream of new products. Any new tech they get is bought, via acquisition; and it is followed up only if it is of immediate value to their existing customers. They aren't creating new markets either (though recently they've bought some life sciences companies, which is a big branch out, and might shake up the health care sector in interesting ways.) Of course, once upon a time, they created the very first commercial relational database, before even IBM (where Codd invented it.) But in the following decades, Oracle didn't keep on developing entirely new technologies. Sun, IBM and HP all have or had strong engineering traditions (in particular HP used to, though not so much today.) Other examples with strong engineering are Sony, Nintendo, Adobe, TI, Intel and Apple. Another business company, like Oracle, is SAP. It's not intended as an insult, just a description of a company's approach. IBM has certainly moved much closer to that these days, it's almost a consulting company (like the big accounting firms), and its R&D has become very directed towards their client's immediate needs - at least, that's what they said at a presentation a few years ago. I've read of Mark Reinhold's comments about what's happening with Java now (but not listened to that specific podcast.) He made an interesting point about the JRockit tech (acquired from BEA.) Let me ask you: is it realistic to imagine the new platform architect not saying positive things on this point, given his job and employer? If he thought otherwise, would he be given the job, with its significant Public Relations component (which is what that podcast is, from Oracle's perspective)? In my view, I'm just stating well-known and accepted facts that I think Oracle itself would agree with. Can you tell me why you don't agree, please? You seem a little angry about it, too. I think it's possible you have misinterpreted me.

8ren 16y ago
High technology is a little like some pacific islands, that are formed from magma swelling up from the depths of the earth. At first, they are desolate and empty, but life quickly colonizes them. You can live in paradise, eating the fruit, and riding the huge waves, serene and zen-like or yelling righteous! righteous! As others come, some set themselves up as kings, living in grand huts, riding the people and telling them what to do. Until one day, the earth opens up again and molten rock flows out, destroying the works of man, destroying whole islands and creating others. I want to be absolutely clear on this next point: engineers in no way control or direct this wave of lava. They surf it.