3 ms·

Except all other things are not equal. Someone who has achieved at the same level while also fighting sexism/racism has had to work harder and be better to get

by ssfrr 8y ago

Except all other things are not equal. Someone who has achieved at the same level while also fighting sexism/racism has had to work harder and be better to get there. They’re playing on hard mode.

hnaccy 8y ago
Do you believe asians Americans face less racism than white Americans?
- ssfrr 8y ago
  I don't think it's really relevant to my point above, but no, I think on average asian americans face more racism than white americans.
  - hnaccy 8y ago
    I took from your post that affirmative action is defensible because it helps those who had a harder time due to racism or sexism. But you admit asians who affirmative actions hurts the most face more racism than whites. Did I misunderstand?
    - ssfrr 8y ago
      I think deciding how best to counteract systematic bias at earlier stages of the pipeline is difficult, and I don't think we should accept widespread collateral damage. That said, I don't think we should use that as an excuse to blow up the whole idea and ignore the bias (I'm not saying that's what you're advocating, just expanding my point).
ironjunkie 8y ago
Except that you make a HUGE generalization based on the gender and the race. You expect Everyone in that group to have to work harder, and you expect that everyone not in that group to have it easy. Stereotyping people based on their race//gender is exactly what we should not do, but exactly what most simple affirmative actions are aiming at. What really matters is socio-economic background.
- ssfrr 8y ago
  I don't think it's a stretch to say that life is harder (on average) for minorities. Ignoring the role of racism and sexism to try to put all the blame on socio-economic background is a gross oversimplification. The NYtimes had a really nice infographic [1] showing the racial disparities in class mobility. tl;dr - white folks who are born rich tend to stay rich more often than black folks, and those who are born poor are more likely to move upwards. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-c...
  - ironjunkie 8y ago
    It is not a stretch, racism exists of course. But as you say, it is on average. And you are entirely basing this assumption on the external skin//gender attributes. When you are doing decisions on the "Average" of a specific group, you are misrepresenting people that do not fit in the stereotype.

by ssfrr 8y ago

Except all other things are not equal. Someone who has achieved at the same level while also fighting sexism/racism has had to work harder and be better to get there. They’re playing on hard mode.

hnaccy 8y ago

Do you believe asians Americans face less racism than white Americans?

ssfrr 8y ago
I don't think it's really relevant to my point above, but no, I think on average asian americans face more racism than white americans.
- hnaccy 8y ago
  I took from your post that affirmative action is defensible because it helps those who had a harder time due to racism or sexism. But you admit asians who affirmative actions hurts the most face more racism than whites. Did I misunderstand?
  - ssfrr 8y ago
    I think deciding how best to counteract systematic bias at earlier stages of the pipeline is difficult, and I don't think we should accept widespread collateral damage. That said, I don't think we should use that as an excuse to blow up the whole idea and ignore the bias (I'm not saying that's what you're advocating, just expanding my point).

ironjunkie 8y ago

Except that you make a HUGE generalization based on the gender and the race. You expect Everyone in that group to have to work harder, and you expect that everyone not in that group to have it easy. Stereotyping people based on their race//gender is exactly what we should not do, but exactly what most simple affirmative actions are aiming at. What really matters is socio-economic background.

ssfrr 8y ago
I don't think it's a stretch to say that life is harder (on average) for minorities. Ignoring the role of racism and sexism to try to put all the blame on socio-economic background is a gross oversimplification. The NYtimes had a really nice infographic [1] showing the racial disparities in class mobility. tl;dr - white folks who are born rich tend to stay rich more often than black folks, and those who are born poor are more likely to move upwards. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-c...
- ironjunkie 8y ago
  It is not a stretch, racism exists of course. But as you say, it is on average. And you are entirely basing this assumption on the external skin//gender attributes. When you are doing decisions on the "Average" of a specific group, you are misrepresenting people that do not fit in the stereotype.