5 ms·

It's very difficult to contort the causal arrow from the obvious explanation (that sick people don't use saunas very often) to less obvious ones (that saunas st

It's very difficult to contort the causal arrow from the obvious explanation (that sick people don't use saunas very often) to less obvious ones (that saunas stimulate something in the heart to improve cardiovascular health). But boy, do they try.

bsder 8y ago
Yeah, I tend to agree. However, I can certainly imagine that a sauna gets your heart rate up and your metabolism into overdrive trying to cool you down. The human body burns roughly a fixed set of calories--it simply shunts those calories between the systems it considers to be immediately important. If you are shunting one or two hundred calories a day to cooling yourself off, that's a bunch of calories your body can't throw at creating chronic conditions.
- blakesterz 8y ago
  I thought it was cold that did that? Or is it both?
  - bsder 8y ago
    Keeping your body temperature constant is the biggest caloric burn in your body whether it's fighting against heat or cold.
- loco5niner 8y ago
  > If you are shunting one or two hundred calories a day to cooling yourself off, that's a bunch of calories your body can't throw at creating chronic conditions. ... or fighting off chronic conditions either.
  - bsder 8y ago
    "Chronic" conditions don't get fought off--they persist. That's what "chronic" means. And, yes, doing this does remove calories from the ability to fight off "acute" conditions. It's a tradeoff.
    - loco5niner 8y ago
      > "Chronic" conditions don't get fought off--they persist. That's what "chronic" means. Well, of course. Fighting off the creation of chronic conditions.
perl4ever 8y ago
Somewhere I read the comment that, to a first approximation, everything is related to everything else. It comforts me a little when I see another example of these incessant articles about how X may cause Y.
jnurmine 8y ago
Ever been in one? In Finland even "sick" people go to the sauna all the time. It depends on the sickness though: fever and sauna don't mix for obvious reasons. But otherwise people do it. Looking at the list of ailments in the article, I don't see them being a showstopper for going to a sauna. For example, regular sauna is often helpful for people with asthma. The Finnish sauna is humid (one throws water to the hot rocks). There are variants within Finland too: a smoke sauna + asthma might not work. My point is: the argument of "sick people do not use sauna" is false. Finnish saying: "if tar, booze or sauna does not cure you, it is fatal". (Tar was used for skin ailments and wounds etc.)
- carbocation 8y ago
  I'm willing to entertain the possibility. And, unlike most things that people try to peddle with low-quality evidence, going to a sauna isn't obviously unhealthy. So, it's low risk. The bigger issue is that observational results often invert cause and effect, and without any clever instrumental perturbation, such studies are merely hypothesis generating.
cromulent 8y ago
The article mentions some of the benefits. For example: "Two recent experimental studies by Lee et a and Laukkanen et al in 100 men and women (56% men; age, 32-75 years) with at least 1 cardiovascular risk factor reported reductions in both systolic BP and diastolic BP after 30-minute sauna bathing sessions. In addition to reductions in BP, sauna bathing led to positive alterations in measures of arterial stiffness such as pulse wave velocity." https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)30275-1/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)...
- tryitnow 8y ago
  I don't have the time to read through the article, but I would bet that there are no active controls used. In other words, yes, blood pressure after a sauna bathing session is probably lower, but that is probably true for a variety of leisure activities, so what's the point of stating the obvious? The more interesting research question is under what circumstances would a sauna bath be recommended over other interventions? I don't mean to knock this paper in particular, the lack of active controls is endemic to academic research in health.
Fjolsvith 8y ago
I've got a hot tub, and I've always thought that a 5-10 minute dip in 105 degrees gave me the benefit of a fever without the caloric expenditure. Plus, it really makes the joints stop aching.

bsder 8y ago

Yeah, I tend to agree. However, I can certainly imagine that a sauna gets your heart rate up and your metabolism into overdrive trying to cool you down. The human body burns roughly a fixed set of calories--it simply shunts those calories between the systems it considers to be immediately important. If you are shunting one or two hundred calories a day to cooling yourself off, that's a bunch of calories your body can't throw at creating chronic conditions.

blakesterz 8y ago
I thought it was cold that did that? Or is it both?
- bsder 8y ago
  Keeping your body temperature constant is the biggest caloric burn in your body whether it's fighting against heat or cold.
loco5niner 8y ago
> If you are shunting one or two hundred calories a day to cooling yourself off, that's a bunch of calories your body can't throw at creating chronic conditions. ... or fighting off chronic conditions either.
- bsder 8y ago
  "Chronic" conditions don't get fought off--they persist. That's what "chronic" means. And, yes, doing this does remove calories from the ability to fight off "acute" conditions. It's a tradeoff.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    > "Chronic" conditions don't get fought off--they persist. That's what "chronic" means. Well, of course. Fighting off the creation of chronic conditions.

perl4ever 8y ago

Somewhere I read the comment that, to a first approximation, everything is related to everything else. It comforts me a little when I see another example of these incessant articles about how X may cause Y.

jnurmine 8y ago

Ever been in one? In Finland even "sick" people go to the sauna all the time. It depends on the sickness though: fever and sauna don't mix for obvious reasons. But otherwise people do it. Looking at the list of ailments in the article, I don't see them being a showstopper for going to a sauna. For example, regular sauna is often helpful for people with asthma. The Finnish sauna is humid (one throws water to the hot rocks). There are variants within Finland too: a smoke sauna + asthma might not work. My point is: the argument of "sick people do not use sauna" is false. Finnish saying: "if tar, booze or sauna does not cure you, it is fatal". (Tar was used for skin ailments and wounds etc.)

carbocation 8y ago
I'm willing to entertain the possibility. And, unlike most things that people try to peddle with low-quality evidence, going to a sauna isn't obviously unhealthy. So, it's low risk. The bigger issue is that observational results often invert cause and effect, and without any clever instrumental perturbation, such studies are merely hypothesis generating.

cromulent 8y ago

The article mentions some of the benefits. For example: "Two recent experimental studies by Lee et a and Laukkanen et al in 100 men and women (56% men; age, 32-75 years) with at least 1 cardiovascular risk factor reported reductions in both systolic BP and diastolic BP after 30-minute sauna bathing sessions. In addition to reductions in BP, sauna bathing led to positive alterations in measures of arterial stiffness such as pulse wave velocity." https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)30275-1/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)...

tryitnow 8y ago
I don't have the time to read through the article, but I would bet that there are no active controls used. In other words, yes, blood pressure after a sauna bathing session is probably lower, but that is probably true for a variety of leisure activities, so what's the point of stating the obvious? The more interesting research question is under what circumstances would a sauna bath be recommended over other interventions? I don't mean to knock this paper in particular, the lack of active controls is endemic to academic research in health.

Fjolsvith 8y ago

I've got a hot tub, and I've always thought that a 5-10 minute dip in 105 degrees gave me the benefit of a fever without the caloric expenditure. Plus, it really makes the joints stop aching.