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Travel is highly variable and can get really expensive if you aren't super careful, even if you aren't really going all out. A two-week vacation for two to Eur

Travel is highly variable and can get really expensive if you aren't super careful, even if you aren't really going all out. A two-week vacation for two to Europe, staying in the (not over the top) Four seasons, and going to reasonably nice-restaurants could easily cost $20k airfare +8K accomodation + $5K daily incidental. You have to be at different level of wealth to take a $33K vacation without worrying about how to pay for it. I don't have any friends at that level. On the flip side, going out to dinner with friends, and discovering that you may be on the hook for $100, and not stressing about how you are going to pay for it, is withing reach of a lot more people. I have several friends who have reached that level. I think the levels are pretty good. Though I would also add two levels of wealth that materially change people's happiness - L0 (Can I pay my bus fare, rent, groceries without stressing. L0 is very, very real). And also, L4 - which is no longer flying commercial. Being able to go where you want on your schedule, without ever having to walk through an Airport/TSA is, I have heard, a material change to personal happiness.

CompelTechnic 8y ago
I think to spend 20k on airfare you would have to be purposefully avoiding good deals.
- tytso 8y ago
  Not really; international business class for a couple could easily run into the 20k territory depending on time of year.
  - ansgri 8y ago
    Then why flying business class if you care about that sort of cost? I've heard horror stories about economy class in USA, but I've flown 9h flights European-level economy and that's quite bearable (though not so pleasant) experience.
    - danbolt 8y ago
      I was kind of thinking the same thing reading this and the above comment. I'm sure with a bit of saving I could afford a business class trip, but spending the money to spend extra time on vacation or doing something interesting seems to outweigh the thought of having some extra legroom or food.
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago
    If you're not a millionaire and pay business class from your own pockets, you're insane.
    - ghshephard 8y ago
      Most millionaires I know don't fly business class. People whose company is paying for their travel (and possibly are billing back a client), people using points, and the ultra-wealthy (>$5mm net worth) are the only people I know who would drop $10K on a 15 hour flight.
- ghshephard 8y ago
  For two? Not at all - I've been on a couple of $9k-$10k business trips that I booked following company policy (advance notice, take advantage of best available pricing, etc...). And this is just business class for a couple, as well. I'm not even thinking about flying first class in emirates, or, heaven forbid, having to fly with children. I booked my mother using points from Canada to Singapore, in business, and the flight (if I had paid with cash) would have been $8300 - and that was after looking 3-4 days in either direction for best pricing.
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    >just business class I find this laughable. I thought it was common understanding that business class prices were significantly disconnected from the prices that the average person pays for a flight
    - ghshephard 8y ago
      I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I'm referring to the seats in the front of the plane, somewhat wider, lie-flat on long flights, better food. This is the type of flight that people who aren't being super-price conscious fly, so called wealth level 3. By definition, anybody flying in coach is not level 3.
      - kaitai 8y ago
        Um... That's not true. My spouse and I could spend whatever we wanted (your 20k or whatever) on flights to Europe from the US in business class; we could pay in cash tomorrow and not really have to worry. But we don't, because that would be stupid. Flying business class to Europe for 10k each is not something we value. Similarly, we don't buy steak when we go out to eat. My spouse can cook a steak from our local farmer better than any steak I've paid $45+ for. We don't feel restaurant steak is a good value. Seafood? Yeah, we'll pay for that -- don't know how to cook it well, so it's a good value for us. There is a significant difference between price and value. Coach is a fine value for me. I'm short, and I want to give my money to restaurateurs in Portugal, not American Airlines. The pleasure per dollar is a much better ratio. (BTW, Portugal is a great value :) )
sternocleidom 8y ago
Absurd You can just as easily spend $1500 a person for a two week vacation in Europe and enjoy essentially all the same things as if you're paying 10x as much. $5K daily incidental, are you kidding me? Don't fly business class unless your business is paying or you're on a honeymoon or something.
- ansgri 8y ago
  Offtopic, but: why would business actually pay for business class?
  - h1srf 8y ago
    You arrive and(generally) go straight to the office. You want your employee to be rested and productive.
  - ericfrenkiel 8y ago
    Generally it is to ensure their employees are well-rested ahead of the important meeting if it is a very long flight. Add in frequent flyer programs to reward an employee’s airline loyalty, and many business class seats are free upgrades for the employee. After a while, it really becomes a consolation prize.
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    If your company "always" buys business class tickets for employees, that includes buying business class tickets for the most important person: You
  - ghshephard 8y ago
    My prior company had a policy that all flights greater than 6 hours were business class flights. There were a few reasons - there are health issues associated with flying packed into a coach seat. Employees who have to fly a lot for work, if it was requested they fly in coach, might decide to leave their jobs pretty quickly if they couldn't fly business. And, somewhat related, it's considered a "soft benefit" (and 100% non-taxable benefit by employees in the USA) being able to fly business, stay in five star hotels, and have a reasonable ($100 or so) per-diem when engaging in business travel.

CompelTechnic 8y ago

I think to spend 20k on airfare you would have to be purposefully avoiding good deals.

tytso 8y ago
Not really; international business class for a couple could easily run into the 20k territory depending on time of year.
- ansgri 8y ago
  Then why flying business class if you care about that sort of cost? I've heard horror stories about economy class in USA, but I've flown 9h flights European-level economy and that's quite bearable (though not so pleasant) experience.
  - danbolt 8y ago
    I was kind of thinking the same thing reading this and the above comment. I'm sure with a bit of saving I could afford a business class trip, but spending the money to spend extra time on vacation or doing something interesting seems to outweigh the thought of having some extra legroom or food.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  If you're not a millionaire and pay business class from your own pockets, you're insane.
  - ghshephard 8y ago
    Most millionaires I know don't fly business class. People whose company is paying for their travel (and possibly are billing back a client), people using points, and the ultra-wealthy (>$5mm net worth) are the only people I know who would drop $10K on a 15 hour flight.
ghshephard 8y ago
For two? Not at all - I've been on a couple of $9k-$10k business trips that I booked following company policy (advance notice, take advantage of best available pricing, etc...). And this is just business class for a couple, as well. I'm not even thinking about flying first class in emirates, or, heaven forbid, having to fly with children. I booked my mother using points from Canada to Singapore, in business, and the flight (if I had paid with cash) would have been $8300 - and that was after looking 3-4 days in either direction for best pricing.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  >just business class I find this laughable. I thought it was common understanding that business class prices were significantly disconnected from the prices that the average person pays for a flight
  - ghshephard 8y ago
    I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I'm referring to the seats in the front of the plane, somewhat wider, lie-flat on long flights, better food. This is the type of flight that people who aren't being super-price conscious fly, so called wealth level 3. By definition, anybody flying in coach is not level 3.
    - kaitai 8y ago
      Um... That's not true. My spouse and I could spend whatever we wanted (your 20k or whatever) on flights to Europe from the US in business class; we could pay in cash tomorrow and not really have to worry. But we don't, because that would be stupid. Flying business class to Europe for 10k each is not something we value. Similarly, we don't buy steak when we go out to eat. My spouse can cook a steak from our local farmer better than any steak I've paid $45+ for. We don't feel restaurant steak is a good value. Seafood? Yeah, we'll pay for that -- don't know how to cook it well, so it's a good value for us. There is a significant difference between price and value. Coach is a fine value for me. I'm short, and I want to give my money to restaurateurs in Portugal, not American Airlines. The pleasure per dollar is a much better ratio. (BTW, Portugal is a great value :) )

sternocleidom 8y ago

Absurd You can just as easily spend $1500 a person for a two week vacation in Europe and enjoy essentially all the same things as if you're paying 10x as much. $5K daily incidental, are you kidding me? Don't fly business class unless your business is paying or you're on a honeymoon or something.

ansgri 8y ago
Offtopic, but: why would business actually pay for business class?
- h1srf 8y ago
  You arrive and(generally) go straight to the office. You want your employee to be rested and productive.
- ericfrenkiel 8y ago
  Generally it is to ensure their employees are well-rested ahead of the important meeting if it is a very long flight. Add in frequent flyer programs to reward an employee’s airline loyalty, and many business class seats are free upgrades for the employee. After a while, it really becomes a consolation prize.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  If your company "always" buys business class tickets for employees, that includes buying business class tickets for the most important person: You
- ghshephard 8y ago
  My prior company had a policy that all flights greater than 6 hours were business class flights. There were a few reasons - there are health issues associated with flying packed into a coach seat. Employees who have to fly a lot for work, if it was requested they fly in coach, might decide to leave their jobs pretty quickly if they couldn't fly business. And, somewhat related, it's considered a "soft benefit" (and 100% non-taxable benefit by employees in the USA) being able to fly business, stay in five star hotels, and have a reasonable ($100 or so) per-diem when engaging in business travel.