5 ms·

It's legal to find ways to reduce your tax burden.

trumped 8y ago
the tax system should be made simpler... no loopholes (I know it is probably not easy to accomplish, but worth a try) ... because middle class can't afford to avoid taxes like the rich does it.
- penagwin 8y ago
  That's simply not possible. The IRS themselves state that "tax evasion" is illegal, but "tax avoidance" isn't. A "loophole" is the use of deductibles to lower the amount you pay in taxes, that you choose to try to get. For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables.....
  - themihai 8y ago
    >>For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables..... Ha ha ... What about a trillion dollar company paying less than 0.9% tax in countries where tax is minimum 13-19% ? Are we supposed to prove they really tried to evade tax? Or companies not paying any tax at all by siphoning profits through fictive loans in places where they pay little or no tax? I'm not sure if you get this but the issue is not about someone getting married to get lower taxes(even though that would be illegal just like married someone to get permanent residency is illegal). https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembo...
    - penagwin 8y ago
      We both agree on the problem that they should be paying more. I suggest that fixing "loopholes" isn't the solution, and instead may consider a "hard-minimum" for multi-billion dollar companies. No deductions beyond x%.
  - trumped 8y ago
    I knew that my opinion would not be popular here as most users are pro corporate... but either way, your definition of loophole is wrong
    - penagwin 8y ago
      We both agree on the problem that they should be paying more. I suggest that fixing "loopholes" isn't the solution, and instead may consider a "hard-minimum" for multi-billion dollar companies. No deductions beyond x%. Deductions do have a use, they may encourage them to "go green" or whatever. But yeah there needs to be an actual minimum.
sharemywin 8y ago
because they're utilizing that money so well.
- bepotts 8y ago
  It's their money. If they have a $1 trillion cash sitting on the sidelines doing nothing that is their right to do so. Apple doesn't make money to support governments.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    > Apple doesn't make money to support governments. Sure, but governments do support Apple and its employees.
    - urda 8y ago
      And Apple pays all of the taxes that they are legally required to, and so Apple is supporting the governments it interacts with. Implying otherwise is dishonest and ridiculous.
      - maym86 8y ago
        Large companies spend millions lobbying to keep it that way. It's not a accident that it's legal. They're not just innocently taking advantage of loopholes that just happen to be there. They help create them and keep then that way at the normal tax payers expense.
  - volkk 8y ago
    ultimately it's in their best interest to do so. a legitimate government with sane laws is a lot more lucrative for businesses long term than an authoritative one
  - maym86 8y ago
    > Apple doesn't make money to support governments. Apple doesn't make money to support society and pay for the social infrastructure it uses to help it be successful. FTFY
themihai 8y ago
>> It's legal to find ways to reduce your tax burden. Many things are legal. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be illegal. Artificially changing the place where taxes are paid is one of the things that Apple is doing and should be illegal. Companies like Apple not only use the system but they support it as well. If you want to fix the tax evading think that you will have to fight against Apple along with many other big corp and on top of that with all kind of rich, shady individuals.
maym86 8y ago
Large companies spend millions lobbying to keep it that way. It's not a accident that it's legal. They're not just innocently taking advantage of loopholes that just happen to be there. They help create them and keep then that way at the normal tax payers expense.

the tax system should be made simpler... no loopholes (I know it is probably not easy to accomplish, but worth a try) ... because middle class can't afford to avoid taxes like the rich does it.

penagwin 8y ago
That's simply not possible. The IRS themselves state that "tax evasion" is illegal, but "tax avoidance" isn't. A "loophole" is the use of deductibles to lower the amount you pay in taxes, that you choose to try to get. For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables.....
- themihai 8y ago
  >>For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables..... Ha ha ... What about a trillion dollar company paying less than 0.9% tax in countries where tax is minimum 13-19% ? Are we supposed to prove they really tried to evade tax? Or companies not paying any tax at all by siphoning profits through fictive loans in places where they pay little or no tax? I'm not sure if you get this but the issue is not about someone getting married to get lower taxes(even though that would be illegal just like married someone to get permanent residency is illegal). https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembo...
  - penagwin 8y ago
    We both agree on the problem that they should be paying more. I suggest that fixing "loopholes" isn't the solution, and instead may consider a "hard-minimum" for multi-billion dollar companies. No deductions beyond x%.
- trumped 8y ago
  I knew that my opinion would not be popular here as most users are pro corporate... but either way, your definition of loophole is wrong
  - penagwin 8y ago
    We both agree on the problem that they should be paying more. I suggest that fixing "loopholes" isn't the solution, and instead may consider a "hard-minimum" for multi-billion dollar companies. No deductions beyond x%. Deductions do have a use, they may encourage them to "go green" or whatever. But yeah there needs to be an actual minimum.

sharemywin 8y ago

because they're utilizing that money so well.

bepotts 8y ago
It's their money. If they have a $1 trillion cash sitting on the sidelines doing nothing that is their right to do so. Apple doesn't make money to support governments.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > Apple doesn't make money to support governments. Sure, but governments do support Apple and its employees.
  - urda 8y ago
    And Apple pays all of the taxes that they are legally required to, and so Apple is supporting the governments it interacts with. Implying otherwise is dishonest and ridiculous.
    - maym86 8y ago
      Large companies spend millions lobbying to keep it that way. It's not a accident that it's legal. They're not just innocently taking advantage of loopholes that just happen to be there. They help create them and keep then that way at the normal tax payers expense.
- volkk 8y ago
  ultimately it's in their best interest to do so. a legitimate government with sane laws is a lot more lucrative for businesses long term than an authoritative one
- maym86 8y ago
  > Apple doesn't make money to support governments. Apple doesn't make money to support society and pay for the social infrastructure it uses to help it be successful. FTFY

themihai 8y ago

>> It's legal to find ways to reduce your tax burden. Many things are legal. This doesn't mean they shouldn't be illegal. Artificially changing the place where taxes are paid is one of the things that Apple is doing and should be illegal. Companies like Apple not only use the system but they support it as well. If you want to fix the tax evading think that you will have to fight against Apple along with many other big corp and on top of that with all kind of rich, shady individuals.

maym86 8y ago

Large companies spend millions lobbying to keep it that way. It's not a accident that it's legal. They're not just innocently taking advantage of loopholes that just happen to be there. They help create them and keep then that way at the normal tax payers expense.