5 ms·

>Abstainers were mainly women, had lower education and physical activity, were obese, and had a higher prevalence of cardiometabolic risk factors, all associate

>Abstainers were mainly women, had lower education and physical activity, were obese, and had a higher prevalence of cardiometabolic risk factors, all associated with an increased risk of dementia,11,12 which could explain the differences; however, adjustment for confounding factors did not alter the findings. This is why interactive data visualization is so important. People need to be able to adjust the results of data to fit them, otherwise the margin of error and deviation from the "average" will be so great, findings are virtually useless to an individual.

sdenton4 8y ago
OTOH, the link is weird enough that my guess is that it's hiding other factors... So mapping to your own experience isn't likely to tell you much. (Unless you are a large aggregate of other people.)
kazinator 8y ago
> however, adjustment for confounding factors did not alter the findings. Let me guess: adjusting for confounding factors means throwing away most of the data, so that all that remains is a small group of abstainers and non-abstainers who are similar in all regards except for the abstinence. Problem is, there may be more than one way to do that, with different results; then it's possible to choose a way of reducing the data to fit the desired hypothesis. The only honest way to fix a confounding bias in the data is to re-do the study with a properly randomized sample of subjects.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Let me guess: adjusting for confounding factors means throwing away most of the data The usual method is statistical adjustment for the contributions attributable to other causes, not throwing out data.
- SubiculumCode 8y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting a study in which people are randomly assigned people to drinking conditions for decades? That is perposterous. Edit: To be clear, assignment to drinking conditions and following them over decades is unrealistic, would have problems with participant compliance, and is probably unethical.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    I recently saw a study where adults were assigned to drink 1 drink per day or 0 drinks per day, for years, with the drinks subsidized.
eksemplar 8y ago
The moment I read 1-14 units a week that must be wine I thought: “well, that’s every intellectual that I know”. I haven’t done any research, and all my knowledgeable is anecdotal. But I did work in a dementia ward as a caretaker for 5 years as a student job, and keeping your mind busy throughout life seems like a good idea.
- benbreen 8y ago
  I was thinking that 1 unit = 1 standard drink but if the study is using the UK definition of units, the 1-14/week range is actually much lower than the average alcohol consumption among the academic/intellectual types I know. To put the 1-14 figure into real world terms, 10 UK units is about equal to a single bottle of 14% ABV wine. And to put that in perspective, on multiple occasions I've witnessed a table of Oxford dons drink the equivalent of 10-20 units over lunch! Granted, academics and intellectuals in the UK are more likely (in my admittedly anecdotal experience) to be functional alcoholics than elsewhere. But still, if I were trying to estimate the median consumption among the few dozen people I know with advanced degrees, I'd say it'd fall more in the range of 2-3 bottles of wine a week or equivalent amounts of beer, which is well into the "excessive" zone in this study. Unfortunately, I seem to fall into that group as well :(
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > Granted, academics and intellectuals in the UK are more likely (in my admittedly anecdotal experience) to be functional alcoholics than elsewhere. Anecdata: Back when I was a barkeeper, I've seen so. much. drinking. with Brits - and ordinary soccer fans at that, not (at least not visibly) academics. They regularly drank all other guests, including Slivovitz-trained Croats and Serbs, under the tables... and were still standing firmly, not stumbling around.
    - acjohnson55 8y ago
      Going into study abroad in Wales, as an American, I had this notion that Europeans were more sophisticated and responsible drinkers. Naaaah.
afpx 8y ago
Personally, I would prefer that an expert in statistical and scientific methods provides some analysis and conclusions. There’s a good reason why “data mining” is often described as “data dredging”. While browsing through data, it’s all too easy to find the conclusions that you want to find. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging

sdenton4 8y ago

OTOH, the link is weird enough that my guess is that it's hiding other factors... So mapping to your own experience isn't likely to tell you much. (Unless you are a large aggregate of other people.)

kazinator 8y ago

> however, adjustment for confounding factors did not alter the findings. Let me guess: adjusting for confounding factors means throwing away most of the data, so that all that remains is a small group of abstainers and non-abstainers who are similar in all regards except for the abstinence. Problem is, there may be more than one way to do that, with different results; then it's possible to choose a way of reducing the data to fit the desired hypothesis. The only honest way to fix a confounding bias in the data is to re-do the study with a properly randomized sample of subjects.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Let me guess: adjusting for confounding factors means throwing away most of the data The usual method is statistical adjustment for the contributions attributable to other causes, not throwing out data.
SubiculumCode 8y ago
Are you seriously suggesting a study in which people are randomly assigned people to drinking conditions for decades? That is perposterous. Edit: To be clear, assignment to drinking conditions and following them over decades is unrealistic, would have problems with participant compliance, and is probably unethical.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  I recently saw a study where adults were assigned to drink 1 drink per day or 0 drinks per day, for years, with the drinks subsidized.

eksemplar 8y ago

The moment I read 1-14 units a week that must be wine I thought: “well, that’s every intellectual that I know”. I haven’t done any research, and all my knowledgeable is anecdotal. But I did work in a dementia ward as a caretaker for 5 years as a student job, and keeping your mind busy throughout life seems like a good idea.

benbreen 8y ago
I was thinking that 1 unit = 1 standard drink but if the study is using the UK definition of units, the 1-14/week range is actually much lower than the average alcohol consumption among the academic/intellectual types I know. To put the 1-14 figure into real world terms, 10 UK units is about equal to a single bottle of 14% ABV wine. And to put that in perspective, on multiple occasions I've witnessed a table of Oxford dons drink the equivalent of 10-20 units over lunch! Granted, academics and intellectuals in the UK are more likely (in my admittedly anecdotal experience) to be functional alcoholics than elsewhere. But still, if I were trying to estimate the median consumption among the few dozen people I know with advanced degrees, I'd say it'd fall more in the range of 2-3 bottles of wine a week or equivalent amounts of beer, which is well into the "excessive" zone in this study. Unfortunately, I seem to fall into that group as well :(
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > Granted, academics and intellectuals in the UK are more likely (in my admittedly anecdotal experience) to be functional alcoholics than elsewhere. Anecdata: Back when I was a barkeeper, I've seen so. much. drinking. with Brits - and ordinary soccer fans at that, not (at least not visibly) academics. They regularly drank all other guests, including Slivovitz-trained Croats and Serbs, under the tables... and were still standing firmly, not stumbling around.
  - acjohnson55 8y ago
    Going into study abroad in Wales, as an American, I had this notion that Europeans were more sophisticated and responsible drinkers. Naaaah.

afpx 8y ago

Personally, I would prefer that an expert in statistical and scientific methods provides some analysis and conclusions. There’s a good reason why “data mining” is often described as “data dredging”. While browsing through data, it’s all too easy to find the conclusions that you want to find. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging