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Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jo

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

nickthemagicman 8y ago
On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  But that costs money. Where’s my pool of desperate labor willing to accept medicorce pay with no benefits and job security. /s Welcome to a tight labor market. May it last as long as possible until public policy catches up.
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  Some construction jobs are better than others. In SF, for example, there are many undersea construction jobs that pay very well. The CTO of Coinbase envisions that construction[0] as an industry is ripe for disruption, reaping the fruits of technology like VR controllable drones[1]. If you make construction like a video game, “young people” will flock to it. [0] https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-balaji-srinivasan-tech-bitcoin-crytocurrency-silicon-valley-management-b8db383c9cef https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-bala... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0
  - null000 8y ago
    > If you make construction like a video game, “young people” will flock to it That's not why "young people" aren't getting into construction. Fact is, there are easier jobs that pay about the same that are way easier to get into and won't destroy your body by the time you're 40. Taking the "destroy your body by the time you're 40" out of the equation might help, but the problem with construction definitely isn't the lack of video games.
- patrickaljord 8y ago
  I know a few people in construction, they started working for someone by fixing doors, do painting etc. until they learned enough to find their own clients. It's easier than you think to find a friend who needs something to get fixed and get more clients from there by doing local advertising or even door to door knocking to check if people need some fixes. These people I know now hire their own workers (and still work themselves too) and make more than many college graduates I know. Not saying anyone who gets into construction makes millions but there definitely is a path for growth and good pay is possible. It is however not a glamorous job, you need to get your hand dirty and work with some unhealthy products you need to protect yourself from (as much as you can at least...). It's a tough job but it does pay well. I personally wouldn't do it because of the physical aspect but financially it is definitely interesting.
  - lowercased 8y ago
    > It's easier than you think to find a friend who needs something to get fixed and get more clients from there by doing local advertising or even door to door knocking to check if people need some fixes. And... treat it like a business. Show up on time. Answer your phone/text/emails. If you need to cancel, give notice. I'm continually flummoxed at how generally bad service industries are in many areas. We had one guy cutting our lawn. BEST EVER. Younger kid - showed up on time, notified ahead when he was coming, would notify if he couldn't make it re: weather delays, then would give us updated time/date. Even more "professional" than professional services we've used. We had one good year, then "I'm going to college, and can't do this any more". He could probably earn more expanding out his operation than he will from whatever college degree he will get. :(
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      At what cost might he earn more money? He loses socioeconomic status by being a landscaper, so his value in the dating market drops. He sacrifices health by being out in the sun all the time, inhaling fuel, increased risk of injury from driving around everywhere. Maybe he can have his own business someday, and have others do the work, but is he wise to play those odds if he also has a decent chance at becoming a doctor/lawyer/engineer/trader/banker?
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  There is a very high price to pay to make up for ruining your body in some types of work involving repetitive and straining motions. Only reason is until now people didn't have options and had to do it, and didn't know about it. But now people are living longer, and there's lots of data about how different occupations fare in their later years. Any kid can see the lifestyle difference between the kids of manual laborers versus office workers. Being able to see your family on a regular basis, being home, not risking your life driving everywhere, all of these have to be made up for in pay.
- Finnucane 8y ago
  The day the Wall Street Journal advocates for those things is the day hell freezes over.
e40 8y ago
And part of telling them not to do those jobs was the college for everyone idea. It was a good ideal, but the problem is, going to college and getting that English 4-year degree doesn't really help you get a job that pays enough to pay off those student loans and save for retirement. What they said on Prairie Home Companion was correct, everyone does thing their child is exceptional and should go to college instead of trade school. The truth is, some of those people working at Starbucks for minimum page, with huge debt, would be far better off had they gone to a trade school and be pulling down serious money as an electrician, etc.
- 49531 8y ago
  I agree that stigmatizing trades has contributed to this issue, but we've also simultaneously made trades worse by allowing their unions to decay and be deregulating the industries that use them.
  - godzillabrennus 8y ago
    Over the last 40 years the trades also had influx of illegal immigrants entering the profession. These have been folks who were willing to do the very difficult work for less pay and no recourse if the conditions were unsafe. Obviously not all trades as most firms won’t gamble using unlicensed electricians and plumbers. On the other hand roofing, drywall, concrete, etc... have been more readily given to folks who work for pennies on the dollar.
    - 49531 8y ago
      Which I would argue is only possible _because_ unions have mostly disintegrated. Scabs are a lot harder to hire, especially illegal immigrant scabs, if there's a union around to hold the company accountable.
      - seanalltogether 8y ago
        I live in a new build neighborhood that's been under construction for the last 5 years or so. For the 24 houses in my circle I've seen countless workers come and go and 4 changeovers in foremen, all voluntarily. How would you possibly unionize such a setup?
cimmanom 8y ago
The jobs globalization devalues least are those that require physical presence - such as construction.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
But that costs money. Where’s my pool of desperate labor willing to accept medicorce pay with no benefits and job security. /s Welcome to a tight labor market. May it last as long as possible until public policy catches up.
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
Some construction jobs are better than others. In SF, for example, there are many undersea construction jobs that pay very well. The CTO of Coinbase envisions that construction[0] as an industry is ripe for disruption, reaping the fruits of technology like VR controllable drones[1]. If you make construction like a video game, “young people” will flock to it. [0] https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-balaji-srinivasan-tech-bitcoin-crytocurrency-silicon-valley-management-b8db383c9cef https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-bala... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0
- null000 8y ago
  > If you make construction like a video game, “young people” will flock to it That's not why "young people" aren't getting into construction. Fact is, there are easier jobs that pay about the same that are way easier to get into and won't destroy your body by the time you're 40. Taking the "destroy your body by the time you're 40" out of the equation might help, but the problem with construction definitely isn't the lack of video games.
patrickaljord 8y ago
I know a few people in construction, they started working for someone by fixing doors, do painting etc. until they learned enough to find their own clients. It's easier than you think to find a friend who needs something to get fixed and get more clients from there by doing local advertising or even door to door knocking to check if people need some fixes. These people I know now hire their own workers (and still work themselves too) and make more than many college graduates I know. Not saying anyone who gets into construction makes millions but there definitely is a path for growth and good pay is possible. It is however not a glamorous job, you need to get your hand dirty and work with some unhealthy products you need to protect yourself from (as much as you can at least...). It's a tough job but it does pay well. I personally wouldn't do it because of the physical aspect but financially it is definitely interesting.
- lowercased 8y ago
  > It's easier than you think to find a friend who needs something to get fixed and get more clients from there by doing local advertising or even door to door knocking to check if people need some fixes. And... treat it like a business. Show up on time. Answer your phone/text/emails. If you need to cancel, give notice. I'm continually flummoxed at how generally bad service industries are in many areas. We had one guy cutting our lawn. BEST EVER. Younger kid - showed up on time, notified ahead when he was coming, would notify if he couldn't make it re: weather delays, then would give us updated time/date. Even more "professional" than professional services we've used. We had one good year, then "I'm going to college, and can't do this any more". He could probably earn more expanding out his operation than he will from whatever college degree he will get. :(
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    At what cost might he earn more money? He loses socioeconomic status by being a landscaper, so his value in the dating market drops. He sacrifices health by being out in the sun all the time, inhaling fuel, increased risk of injury from driving around everywhere. Maybe he can have his own business someday, and have others do the work, but is he wise to play those odds if he also has a decent chance at becoming a doctor/lawyer/engineer/trader/banker?
lotsofpulp 8y ago
There is a very high price to pay to make up for ruining your body in some types of work involving repetitive and straining motions. Only reason is until now people didn't have options and had to do it, and didn't know about it. But now people are living longer, and there's lots of data about how different occupations fare in their later years. Any kid can see the lifestyle difference between the kids of manual laborers versus office workers. Being able to see your family on a regular basis, being home, not risking your life driving everywhere, all of these have to be made up for in pay.
Finnucane 8y ago
The day the Wall Street Journal advocates for those things is the day hell freezes over.

e40 8y ago

And part of telling them not to do those jobs was the college for everyone idea. It was a good ideal, but the problem is, going to college and getting that English 4-year degree doesn't really help you get a job that pays enough to pay off those student loans and save for retirement. What they said on Prairie Home Companion was correct, everyone does thing their child is exceptional and should go to college instead of trade school. The truth is, some of those people working at Starbucks for minimum page, with huge debt, would be far better off had they gone to a trade school and be pulling down serious money as an electrician, etc.

49531 8y ago
I agree that stigmatizing trades has contributed to this issue, but we've also simultaneously made trades worse by allowing their unions to decay and be deregulating the industries that use them.
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  Over the last 40 years the trades also had influx of illegal immigrants entering the profession. These have been folks who were willing to do the very difficult work for less pay and no recourse if the conditions were unsafe. Obviously not all trades as most firms won’t gamble using unlicensed electricians and plumbers. On the other hand roofing, drywall, concrete, etc... have been more readily given to folks who work for pennies on the dollar.
  - 49531 8y ago
    Which I would argue is only possible _because_ unions have mostly disintegrated. Scabs are a lot harder to hire, especially illegal immigrant scabs, if there's a union around to hold the company accountable.
    - seanalltogether 8y ago
      I live in a new build neighborhood that's been under construction for the last 5 years or so. For the 24 houses in my circle I've seen countless workers come and go and 4 changeovers in foremen, all voluntarily. How would you possibly unionize such a setup?

cimmanom 8y ago

The jobs globalization devalues least are those that require physical presence - such as construction.