3 ms·

> If everyone is nice, no one really is. ...this sounds incredibly messed up. The good people might be harder to find in a nice crowd, but the experience of f

> If everyone is nice, no one really is. ...this sounds incredibly messed up. The good people might be harder to find in a nice crowd, but the experience of finding them is much nicer. I can see how a friendship forged in the face of assholes would feel stronger, but I dont think it would necessarily BE a better friendship. Way too easy to be bound with someone that is just LESS of an ass. This sounds like "yay Stockholm Syndrome" more than "here is a safe and stable source of friends", but I'm really glad you shared the outlook because it certainly explains a lot of people. Wow.

arkh 8y ago
Not really Stockholm syndrome. GW2 (experienced at launch for 6 months): awesome game to create random groups as everyone gains from it. Hard to be an ass and you get nothing but maybe some sick joy from it. Honestly: I did not get any huge wholesome experience with anyone: get in zome event group, kill some NPC, do some WvW against anonymous people. Darkfall Online: pure PvP game with player looting. Being a bad person was really rewarding. So it was always awesome to find legitimely good people and go kick some villains ass. Or help defend your neighbours city (who you're usually PKing all day and competing for mobz) against some other bigger imperialist. As being a PK give you something you get player killers. And if you enjoy playing the hero you just got ennemies with the same tools you have, non scripted and maybe smarter / better than you. Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games.
- ergothus 8y ago
  > Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games. I really, truly, am trying to understand, so please bear with my slowness. I can see how it is really rewarding to find not-bad people in an environment that incentivizes really bad people. I don't see how that makes up for getting into such an environment in the first place, and certainly not why one would follow up the experience by seeking out similar environments. People suck on average, so you want to give them every opportunity and incentive to demonstrate, so that you can find the "good" people? Note the selection bias - you're finding those people that are both NOT asshats but also interested in an environment that encourages asshats. Perhaps that's more rewarding than my habit of simply not having close friends at all, but it also seems far more punishing. Bland people can be exhausting, but evil people....they bring despair. To be in an environment that cranks up the frequency and demonstration of people getting joy from the misery of others...that sounds like a choice to endure needless pain and suffering. [Pause for the irony of submitting that last sentence as part of an online discussion thread] I just don't get it. Doubtless just a difference in personal tastes - perhaps someone being a jerk around me bothers me just a tiny bit more, and someone being nice around me thrills me just a tiny bit less - but emotionally I'm failing to wrap understanding around your stance.
  - arkh 8y ago
    > I just don't get it. My opinion only, I'm sure other people playing those kind of games will have other motivations. Those games are fun because (and it goes with the article) there is competition against other humans. If you don't get any pleasure in competing I can understand those games will never appeal to you. The fact you can lose your gear or loot to other players add more stake to fights: when you win your brain is flooded with natural drugs. When losing you have even more drive to get back to your opponent. Fighting against humans feels a lot more rewarding, and usually if you lose it is not because of "some bullshit game mechanic on this boss": it means you have to get better (at the fight part, getting gear part, the diplomacy part to have more people to bring etc.). First time you get killed in those games is when you know if you'll stick or not: either you say "fuck anyone can come and steal my items", or you think "ok, if I can ambush this kind of person with 5 people, we could get free high level gear". On an individual or small group basis, there are good benefits to play a bad guy so you see a lot of them. And I think this kind of environment foster deeper relationships: in the hate direction but also in the friendship direction. You get higher highs and lower lows. But the experience is rarely bland. With MMOs you also get the inter-guild level and that's when politics, diplomacy, spying come into play. The best are grudges and alliances spanning more decades and multiple games. The funniest is when old guard guilds which hate each other end-up allying against new-comers kicking their ass. You get some of those kind of stories with PvE only games but not as much. I may be wrong but I don't know of a lot of guild created in a PvE game spanning multiple games. > evil people....they bring despair Unless you're one of those putting an end to them.

arkh 8y ago

Not really Stockholm syndrome. GW2 (experienced at launch for 6 months): awesome game to create random groups as everyone gains from it. Hard to be an ass and you get nothing but maybe some sick joy from it. Honestly: I did not get any huge wholesome experience with anyone: get in zome event group, kill some NPC, do some WvW against anonymous people. Darkfall Online: pure PvP game with player looting. Being a bad person was really rewarding. So it was always awesome to find legitimely good people and go kick some villains ass. Or help defend your neighbours city (who you're usually PKing all day and competing for mobz) against some other bigger imperialist. As being a PK give you something you get player killers. And if you enjoy playing the hero you just got ennemies with the same tools you have, non scripted and maybe smarter / better than you. Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games.

ergothus 8y ago
> Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games. I really, truly, am trying to understand, so please bear with my slowness. I can see how it is really rewarding to find not-bad people in an environment that incentivizes really bad people. I don't see how that makes up for getting into such an environment in the first place, and certainly not why one would follow up the experience by seeking out similar environments. People suck on average, so you want to give them every opportunity and incentive to demonstrate, so that you can find the "good" people? Note the selection bias - you're finding those people that are both NOT asshats but also interested in an environment that encourages asshats. Perhaps that's more rewarding than my habit of simply not having close friends at all, but it also seems far more punishing. Bland people can be exhausting, but evil people....they bring despair. To be in an environment that cranks up the frequency and demonstration of people getting joy from the misery of others...that sounds like a choice to endure needless pain and suffering. [Pause for the irony of submitting that last sentence as part of an online discussion thread] I just don't get it. Doubtless just a difference in personal tastes - perhaps someone being a jerk around me bothers me just a tiny bit more, and someone being nice around me thrills me just a tiny bit less - but emotionally I'm failing to wrap understanding around your stance.
- arkh 8y ago
  > I just don't get it. My opinion only, I'm sure other people playing those kind of games will have other motivations. Those games are fun because (and it goes with the article) there is competition against other humans. If you don't get any pleasure in competing I can understand those games will never appeal to you. The fact you can lose your gear or loot to other players add more stake to fights: when you win your brain is flooded with natural drugs. When losing you have even more drive to get back to your opponent. Fighting against humans feels a lot more rewarding, and usually if you lose it is not because of "some bullshit game mechanic on this boss": it means you have to get better (at the fight part, getting gear part, the diplomacy part to have more people to bring etc.). First time you get killed in those games is when you know if you'll stick or not: either you say "fuck anyone can come and steal my items", or you think "ok, if I can ambush this kind of person with 5 people, we could get free high level gear". On an individual or small group basis, there are good benefits to play a bad guy so you see a lot of them. And I think this kind of environment foster deeper relationships: in the hate direction but also in the friendship direction. You get higher highs and lower lows. But the experience is rarely bland. With MMOs you also get the inter-guild level and that's when politics, diplomacy, spying come into play. The best are grudges and alliances spanning more decades and multiple games. The funniest is when old guard guilds which hate each other end-up allying against new-comers kicking their ass. You get some of those kind of stories with PvE only games but not as much. I may be wrong but I don't know of a lot of guild created in a PvE game spanning multiple games. > evil people....they bring despair Unless you're one of those putting an end to them.