4 ms·

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the

Ignoring the graphs, curious how much of this is just a response to community. Anecdotes abound, beware. Even as an older (for gaming, anyway) white male, the community in some competitive games is just really unappealing - it basically reminds me of middle school, and I guess I'm not really into that anymore. Lots of things said just to get a reaction (e.g. racial slurs), lots of weird discussions about women, lots of puffed chests the second there's an opportunity to, etc. I don't really have the time to be competitively good at any of these games, and the community kinda sucks unless you are competitively good, so it's kinda like what's the point? At least with rec sports the community is generally nice even if you're terrible (probably because you're in-person). Sure, you can just mute people usually. But if you're muting everyone all the time, you might as well just be playing a single-player game. You can just play with friends, but that requires you to have friends who haven't also gotten sick of these communities. Conversely, the community in games more oriented towards completion/design are usually great - because your success doesn't detract from someone else's, and they're not usually depending on you for their own success. Feels much more like a community. Anyway, my point being that I wouldn't be shocked to learn that women (and likely people of color) feel the same way - once you're not really part of that core group of young white men, competitive games start feeling really unappealing unless you're just really into the game itself.

paidleaf 8y ago
> I don't really have the time to be competitively good at any of these games, and the community kinda sucks unless you are competitively good so it's kinda like what's the point? You could play with people on your own level? > At least with rec sports the community is generally nice even if you're terrible (probably because you're in-person). Really? Try playing pick-up basketball games if you are terrible. Even with rec sports, people play at their own level. > Anyway, my point being that I wouldn't be shocked to learn that women (and likely people of color) feel the same way - once you're not really part of that core group of young white men Young white men? Why are you being racist and sexist by targeting one group? People don't play online games or recreational sports for "community". Seems like you are lonely and trying to make friends in the wrong places. I play sports because it's fun and good exercise. I play video games because it's fun and mentally challenging. I don't play sports or video games for community. > competitive games start feeling really unappealing unless you're just really into the game itself. Then don't play it. Go play something else? Why are you complaining about it? Maybe women on average don't like competitive games for the same reason women don't like other competitive sports like basketball, baseball, etc? Maybe, men and women are on average different and have different interests. Maybe that's why advertisers go about targeting men and women different? Maybe that's why movies, music, etc are differently geared towards men and women? Or, maybe you could push your racist and sexist rhetoric and blame young white men?
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly taking HN threads into hellish, repetitive flamewar.
swiley 8y ago
The community around open source games (not counting assault cube) doesn't seem so bad but I'm not that active in it.
majos 8y ago
> it basically reminds me of middle school Many bad actors in competitive online gaming are middle/high schoolers.
arkh 8y ago
My own experience feels different than yours like how friendship is different in some areas. In the good community games usually things are not deep: people are nice but no one will really risk anything or inconvenience themselves for you. In more "hardcore" games where everyone can be hostile and gain to fuck with you, finding people who help other has a lot more meaning. I'm used to play with a guild in multiple PvP oriented MMO: I know most of them will risk their hardly obtained gear to help. We have good relationships with some other guilds and know we'll all go out of our ways to help each other in different games. When you could kill new players, take their loot and camp their corpse, being one of those who don't but will help with some gear and tips can snowball months later. When you can scam and cheat people, getting a trustful trader reputation can mean a lot. If everyone is nice, no one really is.
- ergothus 8y ago
  > If everyone is nice, no one really is. ...this sounds incredibly messed up. The good people might be harder to find in a nice crowd, but the experience of finding them is much nicer. I can see how a friendship forged in the face of assholes would feel stronger, but I dont think it would necessarily BE a better friendship. Way too easy to be bound with someone that is just LESS of an ass. This sounds like "yay Stockholm Syndrome" more than "here is a safe and stable source of friends", but I'm really glad you shared the outlook because it certainly explains a lot of people. Wow.
  - arkh 8y ago
    Not really Stockholm syndrome. GW2 (experienced at launch for 6 months): awesome game to create random groups as everyone gains from it. Hard to be an ass and you get nothing but maybe some sick joy from it. Honestly: I did not get any huge wholesome experience with anyone: get in zome event group, kill some NPC, do some WvW against anonymous people. Darkfall Online: pure PvP game with player looting. Being a bad person was really rewarding. So it was always awesome to find legitimely good people and go kick some villains ass. Or help defend your neighbours city (who you're usually PKing all day and competing for mobz) against some other bigger imperialist. As being a PK give you something you get player killers. And if you enjoy playing the hero you just got ennemies with the same tools you have, non scripted and maybe smarter / better than you. Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games.

paidleaf 8y ago

> I don't really have the time to be competitively good at any of these games, and the community kinda sucks unless you are competitively good so it's kinda like what's the point? You could play with people on your own level? > At least with rec sports the community is generally nice even if you're terrible (probably because you're in-person). Really? Try playing pick-up basketball games if you are terrible. Even with rec sports, people play at their own level. > Anyway, my point being that I wouldn't be shocked to learn that women (and likely people of color) feel the same way - once you're not really part of that core group of young white men Young white men? Why are you being racist and sexist by targeting one group? People don't play online games or recreational sports for "community". Seems like you are lonely and trying to make friends in the wrong places. I play sports because it's fun and good exercise. I play video games because it's fun and mentally challenging. I don't play sports or video games for community. > competitive games start feeling really unappealing unless you're just really into the game itself. Then don't play it. Go play something else? Why are you complaining about it? Maybe women on average don't like competitive games for the same reason women don't like other competitive sports like basketball, baseball, etc? Maybe, men and women are on average different and have different interests. Maybe that's why advertisers go about targeting men and women different? Maybe that's why movies, music, etc are differently geared towards men and women? Or, maybe you could push your racist and sexist rhetoric and blame young white men?

dang 8y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly taking HN threads into hellish, repetitive flamewar.

swiley 8y ago

The community around open source games (not counting assault cube) doesn't seem so bad but I'm not that active in it.

majos 8y ago

> it basically reminds me of middle school Many bad actors in competitive online gaming are middle/high schoolers.

arkh 8y ago

My own experience feels different than yours like how friendship is different in some areas. In the good community games usually things are not deep: people are nice but no one will really risk anything or inconvenience themselves for you. In more "hardcore" games where everyone can be hostile and gain to fuck with you, finding people who help other has a lot more meaning. I'm used to play with a guild in multiple PvP oriented MMO: I know most of them will risk their hardly obtained gear to help. We have good relationships with some other guilds and know we'll all go out of our ways to help each other in different games. When you could kill new players, take their loot and camp their corpse, being one of those who don't but will help with some gear and tips can snowball months later. When you can scam and cheat people, getting a trustful trader reputation can mean a lot. If everyone is nice, no one really is.

ergothus 8y ago
> If everyone is nice, no one really is. ...this sounds incredibly messed up. The good people might be harder to find in a nice crowd, but the experience of finding them is much nicer. I can see how a friendship forged in the face of assholes would feel stronger, but I dont think it would necessarily BE a better friendship. Way too easy to be bound with someone that is just LESS of an ass. This sounds like "yay Stockholm Syndrome" more than "here is a safe and stable source of friends", but I'm really glad you shared the outlook because it certainly explains a lot of people. Wow.
- arkh 8y ago
  Not really Stockholm syndrome. GW2 (experienced at launch for 6 months): awesome game to create random groups as everyone gains from it. Hard to be an ass and you get nothing but maybe some sick joy from it. Honestly: I did not get any huge wholesome experience with anyone: get in zome event group, kill some NPC, do some WvW against anonymous people. Darkfall Online: pure PvP game with player looting. Being a bad person was really rewarding. So it was always awesome to find legitimely good people and go kick some villains ass. Or help defend your neighbours city (who you're usually PKing all day and competing for mobz) against some other bigger imperialist. As being a PK give you something you get player killers. And if you enjoy playing the hero you just got ennemies with the same tools you have, non scripted and maybe smarter / better than you. Once you've experienced this kind of MMO it is hard to get the same highs from other games.