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The translator's job is particularly difficult when they are meant to translate something that is misinterpreted in the original culture. A comment about this

The translator's job is particularly difficult when they are meant to translate something that is misinterpreted in the original culture. A comment about this would seem political. For example, in this transcript: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-tran... It clearly says "When you're famous, women [you don't have a relationship with] will consent to [aggressively] grabbing their vagina". I added the brackets based on the context, but I didn't add the word consent: in the original the word consent is the word "let". A perfect synonymn. If you say "I let him do that" in the past means exactly "I consented to his doing that." It's the exsct meaning. (We know that "they" refers to the women and not the media (i.e. they'll let you means the women will consent, not, the media will let you get away with it) because immediately before, Trump set the topic of what women will and won't consent to.) Immediately before, he mentioned how he was rejected: "I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it." (After a followup) "I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. " This is hard to translate and must be done with care. As a translator I would look at some of the context, the whole context. This is as follows: Trump: I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it. Unknown: Whoa. Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married. Unknown: That’s huge news. Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture — I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. --- I would be 80% confident that the correct translation is: "I made an advance on her, but she rejected me and I stopped." (It is hard for me to know what "moved on her like a bitch" means. I am puzzled.) But the parts I have given clear, unambiguous black and white translations for is that, in the context of being famous, usually women will consent to very aggressive sexual advances. That's the meaning of the words. Not the meaning of the words: "You should just grab women by the vagina without asking." The English-language culture (on both sides of the aisle) is not used to interpreting someone. So to bring things full circle, I would translate the excerpt: And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. (Man) Whatever you want. Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything. -- "Even grab them intimately, they will allow even that." ---- That is the correct translation, because the translator's loyalty is to the speaker, not to the media, politics, etc.

cm2012 8y ago
You're definitely demonstrating why translation is hard. "Let" is definitely not a perfect synonym for consent. It often means, "not prevent or forbid." Consent is always active, not passive - permission is given. So let's jump into a possible pussy grabbing scenario. Someone could be shocked in the moment and not physically stop the pussy grabbing. And then after, they might not run screaming to the police, because it's his word vs hers and he is a very powerful man. Technically, she "let" him to do it, in that she didn't prevent it. But it's certainly not consent.
- smartchouce 8y ago
  That is simply not the meaning of the word "let" in this context. Just to let you know I know what you mean, here's an expression using "let" in both senses: 1. How could you let him do that? 2. I didn't "let" him do that. How was I supposed to know he would do that? He never asked me. Here 1 uses your meaning and 2 uses mine. Donald Trump's transcript uses 2, not 1. (Another usage of 1 is whenever someone says 'how could you let this happen'? That never means allow.) Another example is one someone says: "I can't believe I let this happen." They don't mean "allow" then. However, in Trump's transcript he means the allow meaning. You can be quite certain, because he set the context clearly. Basically, quoting "grab them by the pussy" is leaving out the meaning as uttered. It's a nice scary quote. As a translator you have to kind of mistranslate it so it is shocking but also grammatically kind of still matches the imperative. But that's not what was said.
  - cm2012 8y ago
    We're going to have to seriously disagree here. The people who have accused him of sexual assault (their stories written down before the video came out) described the experience in the way I defined it. Trump shocking them by kissing them in the mouth out of nowhere, grabbing them, etc.
    - smartchouce 8y ago
      The people you quote would say "no" to the question "Did you let Trump do that?" (No.) Knowing that women don't let him do that might might be a good reason to put words in Trump's mouth and remove "they'll let you" from his sentence, but it is not a faithful translation. What he said was that they let you do that. It's not true that the women let him do that, but that's what was uttered. As a translator, you don't get to change what someone said, to instead match the truth that you learn from somewhere else. For an example, a famous lie is that Nixon said "I am not a crook." We know he was a criminal who resigned due to his criminal activities. So can I change that line from "I am not a crook" to, "Nixon called himself a crook"? After all the reason for his statement or the use of the word crook was the fact that he was a crook, and making a public address on this subject. Of course not. And likewise it's wrong to change "they let you grab 'em by the pussy" to "grab 'em by the pussy" by misquoting the sentence. It's there in black and white, you just have to read it.

cm2012 8y ago

You're definitely demonstrating why translation is hard. "Let" is definitely not a perfect synonym for consent. It often means, "not prevent or forbid." Consent is always active, not passive - permission is given. So let's jump into a possible pussy grabbing scenario. Someone could be shocked in the moment and not physically stop the pussy grabbing. And then after, they might not run screaming to the police, because it's his word vs hers and he is a very powerful man. Technically, she "let" him to do it, in that she didn't prevent it. But it's certainly not consent.

smartchouce 8y ago
That is simply not the meaning of the word "let" in this context. Just to let you know I know what you mean, here's an expression using "let" in both senses: 1. How could you let him do that? 2. I didn't "let" him do that. How was I supposed to know he would do that? He never asked me. Here 1 uses your meaning and 2 uses mine. Donald Trump's transcript uses 2, not 1. (Another usage of 1 is whenever someone says 'how could you let this happen'? That never means allow.) Another example is one someone says: "I can't believe I let this happen." They don't mean "allow" then. However, in Trump's transcript he means the allow meaning. You can be quite certain, because he set the context clearly. Basically, quoting "grab them by the pussy" is leaving out the meaning as uttered. It's a nice scary quote. As a translator you have to kind of mistranslate it so it is shocking but also grammatically kind of still matches the imperative. But that's not what was said.
- cm2012 8y ago
  We're going to have to seriously disagree here. The people who have accused him of sexual assault (their stories written down before the video came out) described the experience in the way I defined it. Trump shocking them by kissing them in the mouth out of nowhere, grabbing them, etc.
  - smartchouce 8y ago
    The people you quote would say "no" to the question "Did you let Trump do that?" (No.) Knowing that women don't let him do that might might be a good reason to put words in Trump's mouth and remove "they'll let you" from his sentence, but it is not a faithful translation. What he said was that they let you do that. It's not true that the women let him do that, but that's what was uttered. As a translator, you don't get to change what someone said, to instead match the truth that you learn from somewhere else. For an example, a famous lie is that Nixon said "I am not a crook." We know he was a criminal who resigned due to his criminal activities. So can I change that line from "I am not a crook" to, "Nixon called himself a crook"? After all the reason for his statement or the use of the word crook was the fact that he was a crook, and making a public address on this subject. Of course not. And likewise it's wrong to change "they let you grab 'em by the pussy" to "grab 'em by the pussy" by misquoting the sentence. It's there in black and white, you just have to read it.