4 ms·

Having had a quick look through, I think I'm going to spend some time playing around with this... I think that simple game engines are really important to getti

Having had a quick look through, I think I'm going to spend some time playing around with this... I think that simple game engines are really important to getting young people into programming. I have two step-sons (11 and 17), both of who are into gaming, but the elder one showed a bit of interest in programming when he was 11-12, but the problem (I think) is that the games they are playing are light-years away from anything they can even hope to program - and if they see what's involved in programming a FPS, they are (understandably!) crestfallen and look elsewhere. However, something like this would give them a way in to program something playable (and retro games are cool as far as they're concerned), but do some genuine learning AND see that there may be a path forward for them to produce something worthwhile. When I was their age, games like Manic Miner seemed possible. I'm not in any way saying I had the skill of Matthew Smith (and still don't, I'm learning myself for a career change), but it didn't seem like impossible future alien technology, whereas today's games are - they take thousands of man years to create, and are made by incredibly skilled people.

jcelerier 8y ago
> I have two step-sons (11 and 17), both of who are into gaming, but the elder one showed a bit of interest in programming when he was 11-12, but the problem (I think) is that the games they are playing are light-years away from anything they can even hope to program Well, that would be like going to the cinema for Marvel movies and then refusing to do amateur films because you think that you would not be able to make Marvel movies on your own.
- fredoliveira 8y ago
  Sure, that's a good analogy, but what's the point? He's still right. When you are a kid, it is hard to see the forest from the trees. To people here, understanding the basics of game development in a limited environment as a stepping stone to building larger games is probably obvious. But kids don't really have that insight. I think the solution is to provide that insight (and this should go for parents and game engine developers): that this is foundational game design and thinking. That everyone who's working in the industry today understands these foundations. And maybe that retro is still pretty cool ;-)
crtasm 8y ago
There's still plenty of games being released that are made by small groups of people. I think Unity might be worth playing with for 3D stuff? Or modding the games they're already playing can be a fantastic learning experience.
parasubvert 8y ago
I too found it hard to bring achievable game making into the hands of kids, but I've found Indie games have had a great renaissance, especially on portables like the Nintendo Switch. These have design spaces that are possible for mortals. Celeste, Death Road to Canada, Enter the Gungeon, etc. Another angle is that there are some great courses online to use something like Unity and, maybe not write a whole game, but design, sculpt, script a boss battle.
ashleyn 8y ago
I was in the generation between you and your kids. We had amazing games like Quake and Half-Life but we also had the awesome Qbasic games community. There used to be entire sites hosting Qbasic games, many of which were often simple puzzles that had a very unique artistic style and charm to them that was worthy in its own right. They also often came with the source, which let you dig right in, try to modify it for more lives, etc. Qbasic games weren't much to look at compared to the budding photorealism of commercial games, but the constraints imposed upon them by the already-aging Qbasic platform forced developers to come up with some truly cool stuff that maxed out what it was capable of doing. Wetspot 2 and Ghini Run come to mind, as well as countless raycaster tests I built entire worlds within. There hasn't been anything like it since, with the unique intersection of constrained tooling that creates a distinctive style, a strong community, and an easy to learn programming language. Pico 8, love, and this may come close to recapturing that magic.

jcelerier 8y ago

> I have two step-sons (11 and 17), both of who are into gaming, but the elder one showed a bit of interest in programming when he was 11-12, but the problem (I think) is that the games they are playing are light-years away from anything they can even hope to program Well, that would be like going to the cinema for Marvel movies and then refusing to do amateur films because you think that you would not be able to make Marvel movies on your own.

fredoliveira 8y ago
Sure, that's a good analogy, but what's the point? He's still right. When you are a kid, it is hard to see the forest from the trees. To people here, understanding the basics of game development in a limited environment as a stepping stone to building larger games is probably obvious. But kids don't really have that insight. I think the solution is to provide that insight (and this should go for parents and game engine developers): that this is foundational game design and thinking. That everyone who's working in the industry today understands these foundations. And maybe that retro is still pretty cool ;-)

crtasm 8y ago

There's still plenty of games being released that are made by small groups of people. I think Unity might be worth playing with for 3D stuff? Or modding the games they're already playing can be a fantastic learning experience.

parasubvert 8y ago

I too found it hard to bring achievable game making into the hands of kids, but I've found Indie games have had a great renaissance, especially on portables like the Nintendo Switch. These have design spaces that are possible for mortals. Celeste, Death Road to Canada, Enter the Gungeon, etc. Another angle is that there are some great courses online to use something like Unity and, maybe not write a whole game, but design, sculpt, script a boss battle.

ashleyn 8y ago

I was in the generation between you and your kids. We had amazing games like Quake and Half-Life but we also had the awesome Qbasic games community. There used to be entire sites hosting Qbasic games, many of which were often simple puzzles that had a very unique artistic style and charm to them that was worthy in its own right. They also often came with the source, which let you dig right in, try to modify it for more lives, etc. Qbasic games weren't much to look at compared to the budding photorealism of commercial games, but the constraints imposed upon them by the already-aging Qbasic platform forced developers to come up with some truly cool stuff that maxed out what it was capable of doing. Wetspot 2 and Ghini Run come to mind, as well as countless raycaster tests I built entire worlds within. There hasn't been anything like it since, with the unique intersection of constrained tooling that creates a distinctive style, a strong community, and an easy to learn programming language. Pico 8, love, and this may come close to recapturing that magic.