9 ms·

As an Australian, it seems like a great deal of the problems with human trafficking surface from the criminalisation of prostitution. Pimps hold far less power

by dannyw 8y ago

As an Australian, it seems like a great deal of the problems with human trafficking surface from the criminalisation of prostitution. Pimps hold far less power when the prostitutes have legal recourse and police on their side.

AFNobody 8y ago
This is largely correct but not something the US's religious right is willing to accept. Decriminalizing prostitution and criminalizing the person doing the "buying" in public is the maximum that is viable without encouraging abuse.
- jack9 8y ago
  Both sides are criminalized in the US
  - AFNobody 8y ago
    Which is the problem.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- pitaj 8y ago
  There no reason to paint this as a partisan issue. There are plenty of puritans on the left.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - untog 8y ago
    There are plenty, but there are also definitely a lot more on the Republican side. A majority of self-identified Democrats favor legalization, while a majority of self-identified Republicans are against: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/09/01/country-split-legalizing-prostitution https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...
  - AFNobody 8y ago
    The majority of the left supports decriminalization or legalization as the other commenter pointed out. Pretending it isn't a partisan issue is silly.
    - tomhoward 8y ago
      > "Pretending it isn't a partisan issue is silly." The stats to which you refer don't support that dismissal. In that survey, 50% of Dems supported legalisation/decriminalisation (which you'll notice is not quite a majority, or is a narrow one if you ignore the undecideds) and 34% of Republicans supported it. So it's a 16 percentage point difference. Yes there's more support among Democrats, but not so much so that you can dismiss it as a partisan issue. Anecdotally, here in Australia, someone I know very well works in a government policy role administering sex work, and some of the most strident campaigning in favour of re-criminalisation comes from the left. In this state it was a conservative government that legalised it in the early 90s, in the first year they came to power after 10 years of social-democratic government. There's no campaign from the conservative side to re-criminalise it here.
rishav_sharan 8y ago
Agreed but it's not that black and white. The overall success of the decriminalization also depends on the culture and education level of the populace and the ability of the govt to enforce the laws. From, what i remember of my talk with ngo friends in india, in a poor developing country like india or bangladesh, legalization of prostitution would actually increase the trafficking. Similar reason why allowing everyone firearms works in Scandinavian countries but is an issue in the US
- amarant 8y ago
  which Scandinavian country allows everyone to have firearms? As a swede I thought I would have known about this, yet to the best of my knowledge there are quite strict rules around it, especially when compared to the us, in every Scandinavian country.
- pasiaj 8y ago
  We don't allow everyone firearms in Scandinavian countries. We're quite strict, actually. Finland has a very high number of (hunting) weapons. It is significantly harder to get a pistol or a semi-automatic weapon. Switzerland, I think, allows semi-automatic firearms for almost everybody, and has more liberal gun laws in general.
  - hekfu 8y ago
    Not nearly as liberal as the US though. Afaik you are very much limited where you are allowed to have ammunition loaded into the rifle, concealed carry isn't a thing at all and the police can ban you from owning guns
stealthmodeclan 8y ago
I wonder, why governments don't make getting sex easier. Why isn't there any app where you can just pay to have guaranteed safe sex in a government audited establishments without any drama? Right now, many play a game of courting a potential mate. Sometimes, feelings are hurt due to unpredictable nature of this game. It results in manipulation, lies and faking. It might make people who repeatedly fail to get any sex, a criminal. When was the last time your date showed up without makeup? This reeks dishonesty, ambush and manipulation. Efficiency of this market can cure many issues like sexual harassment, end scam market of pickup artist and many other crimes of passion. Chasing other sex should be outlawed unless they've subscribed to the app and the application for sex goes through the government devised route. If I've unsubscribed then no one should offer me drinks for the purpose of getting sex. This is good for everyone's sanity. Why not just have an app and bet sums of money there, then everyone will be motivated to acquire more money instead of playing other games. Blame is on society for making the act of paying for sex through sweat/blood a stigma. Without sex we would have gone extinct by now and yet sex is not considered as the primary need of humans. I know a lot tech workers who were promised sex in return of favours - training, jobs, finanical help using signals and later got sexual harassment charges when they successfully delivered. Humans are seflish. They want something in return of something.
- IGI-111 8y ago
  The most convincing argument against the commodification of sex is, in my opinion, that such intimacy holds a special enough place in human psychology that even an efficient sex market wouldn't make people happy. I'm not sure if it's too linked with pair bonding to be its own thing, but that's certainly something to consider. Still very much in the camp of legalization myself. If only because I can't fathom why the State gives itself the mandate to ban the exchange of this particular service in principle.
  - kofejnik 8y ago
    > such intimacy holds a special enough place in human psychology that's exactly what religious conservatives of all sorts say when they want to prosecute extramarital sex
auslander 8y ago
Is prostitution legal? If not, these ads / sites must not be allowed. Hope it does not contradict your point, that these girls should have law and police on their side, they probably have it in AU. Ozzie here too.
DanBC 8y ago
Backpage is not about adults who had the free choice to sell sex. Backpage is about children who were kidnapped, drugged, and sold to be raped being advertised on Backpage. This happened with the knowledge, and support, of Backpage staff, including the owners of the company. Even if we legalise prostitution between consenting adults who have the freedom to make the choice, we're never ever going to say it's legal to kidnap a child, drug her, and sell her to be raped. Please read this. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report%202017.01.10%20FINAL.pdf https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report...
- bdcravens 8y ago
  I'm not sure if I agree or not, but I think the argument is this: Legal prostitution would increase the supply enough to make the economics behind illegal trafficking far less lucrative.

by dannyw 8y ago

AFNobody 8y ago

This is largely correct but not something the US's religious right is willing to accept. Decriminalizing prostitution and criminalizing the person doing the "buying" in public is the maximum that is viable without encouraging abuse.

jack9 8y ago
Both sides are criminalized in the US
- AFNobody 8y ago
  Which is the problem.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pitaj 8y ago
There no reason to paint this as a partisan issue. There are plenty of puritans on the left.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- untog 8y ago
  There are plenty, but there are also definitely a lot more on the Republican side. A majority of self-identified Democrats favor legalization, while a majority of self-identified Republicans are against: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/09/01/country-split-legalizing-prostitution https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...
- AFNobody 8y ago
  The majority of the left supports decriminalization or legalization as the other commenter pointed out. Pretending it isn't a partisan issue is silly.
  - tomhoward 8y ago
    > "Pretending it isn't a partisan issue is silly." The stats to which you refer don't support that dismissal. In that survey, 50% of Dems supported legalisation/decriminalisation (which you'll notice is not quite a majority, or is a narrow one if you ignore the undecideds) and 34% of Republicans supported it. So it's a 16 percentage point difference. Yes there's more support among Democrats, but not so much so that you can dismiss it as a partisan issue. Anecdotally, here in Australia, someone I know very well works in a government policy role administering sex work, and some of the most strident campaigning in favour of re-criminalisation comes from the left. In this state it was a conservative government that legalised it in the early 90s, in the first year they came to power after 10 years of social-democratic government. There's no campaign from the conservative side to re-criminalise it here.

rishav_sharan 8y ago

Agreed but it's not that black and white. The overall success of the decriminalization also depends on the culture and education level of the populace and the ability of the govt to enforce the laws. From, what i remember of my talk with ngo friends in india, in a poor developing country like india or bangladesh, legalization of prostitution would actually increase the trafficking. Similar reason why allowing everyone firearms works in Scandinavian countries but is an issue in the US

amarant 8y ago
which Scandinavian country allows everyone to have firearms? As a swede I thought I would have known about this, yet to the best of my knowledge there are quite strict rules around it, especially when compared to the us, in every Scandinavian country.
pasiaj 8y ago
We don't allow everyone firearms in Scandinavian countries. We're quite strict, actually. Finland has a very high number of (hunting) weapons. It is significantly harder to get a pistol or a semi-automatic weapon. Switzerland, I think, allows semi-automatic firearms for almost everybody, and has more liberal gun laws in general.
- hekfu 8y ago
  Not nearly as liberal as the US though. Afaik you are very much limited where you are allowed to have ammunition loaded into the rifle, concealed carry isn't a thing at all and the police can ban you from owning guns

stealthmodeclan 8y ago

I wonder, why governments don't make getting sex easier. Why isn't there any app where you can just pay to have guaranteed safe sex in a government audited establishments without any drama? Right now, many play a game of courting a potential mate. Sometimes, feelings are hurt due to unpredictable nature of this game. It results in manipulation, lies and faking. It might make people who repeatedly fail to get any sex, a criminal. When was the last time your date showed up without makeup? This reeks dishonesty, ambush and manipulation. Efficiency of this market can cure many issues like sexual harassment, end scam market of pickup artist and many other crimes of passion. Chasing other sex should be outlawed unless they've subscribed to the app and the application for sex goes through the government devised route. If I've unsubscribed then no one should offer me drinks for the purpose of getting sex. This is good for everyone's sanity. Why not just have an app and bet sums of money there, then everyone will be motivated to acquire more money instead of playing other games. Blame is on society for making the act of paying for sex through sweat/blood a stigma. Without sex we would have gone extinct by now and yet sex is not considered as the primary need of humans. I know a lot tech workers who were promised sex in return of favours - training, jobs, finanical help using signals and later got sexual harassment charges when they successfully delivered. Humans are seflish. They want something in return of something.

IGI-111 8y ago
The most convincing argument against the commodification of sex is, in my opinion, that such intimacy holds a special enough place in human psychology that even an efficient sex market wouldn't make people happy. I'm not sure if it's too linked with pair bonding to be its own thing, but that's certainly something to consider. Still very much in the camp of legalization myself. If only because I can't fathom why the State gives itself the mandate to ban the exchange of this particular service in principle.
- kofejnik 8y ago
  > such intimacy holds a special enough place in human psychology that's exactly what religious conservatives of all sorts say when they want to prosecute extramarital sex

auslander 8y ago

Is prostitution legal? If not, these ads / sites must not be allowed. Hope it does not contradict your point, that these girls should have law and police on their side, they probably have it in AU. Ozzie here too.

DanBC 8y ago

Backpage is not about adults who had the free choice to sell sex. Backpage is about children who were kidnapped, drugged, and sold to be raped being advertised on Backpage. This happened with the knowledge, and support, of Backpage staff, including the owners of the company. Even if we legalise prostitution between consenting adults who have the freedom to make the choice, we're never ever going to say it's legal to kidnap a child, drug her, and sell her to be raped. Please read this. https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report%202017.01.10%20FINAL.pdf https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report...

bdcravens 8y ago
I'm not sure if I agree or not, but I think the argument is this: Legal prostitution would increase the supply enough to make the economics behind illegal trafficking far less lucrative.