8 ms·

That stopped being taken at face value a long time ago when SCOTUS decided to weaponize the Commerce Clause...

by craftyguy 8y ago

ailideex 8y ago
Mind elaborating?
- ryanlol 8y ago
  the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." The courts and the congress have a very strange interpretation of this, for example in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich
  - ailideex 8y ago
    I meant more on how that is relevant to free speech. The case you cited seems to be about cannabis.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      I'm not really sure. But the ever-expanding scope of the commerce clause is presumably what he refers to as weaponization.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel_v._Unit... (note: I am not saying I disagree with a decision to outlaw discrimination, just pointing out the absurdity that the Commerce Clause was 'interpreted' as being the only way to do this [which ultimately resulted in government limiting free speech])
  - sbuttgereit 8y ago
    This is my favorite example of this overreach... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn In hand-wavy terms... in this case the commerce clause was used to prevent a farmer from growing wheat on his own land for use in feeding his own livestock. The federal government had established limits on wheat production at the time as part of the "New Deal".
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      That was not overreach. At the time, laws limited how much wheat a farmer could grow so as to maintain the national price of wheat. (Wheat hasn't been a purely local product in more than a century.) The farmer in the case grew more than his allotment. He sold the allowed amount but then used the excess to feed his own cows, rather than buying it from the market (or taking it out of his original allotment). If allowed, at scale this would render the crop controls meaningless and would have destroyed the price of wheat during a time of war, driving thousands of farmers into destitution and eliminating a potential resource needed for the war effort.
      - sbuttgereit 8y ago
        Of course it was overreach and a tortured interpretation of the commerce clause to get there. The "time of war" argument is completely bogus. The word "war" doesn't appear anywhere in the decision itself nor are its consequences limited to wartime in any way. The law in question was a 1938 law that was trying to increase government management of agriculture economic activity. While progressive are happy to use any crisis that comes along to further this sort of overreach into economic activity, including war, one could equally say that the courts decision was probably at least as influenced by the fact that Roosevelt had appointed 8 of the Justices that heard the case and the court was ideologically aligned with him... since the 1938 law was part of his disastrous economic program (http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409 http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-D...), it's little wonder they sided with the government.
        8y ago

That stopped being taken at face value a long time ago when SCOTUS decided to weaponize the Commerce Clause...

ailideex 8y ago

Mind elaborating?

ryanlol 8y ago
the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." The courts and the congress have a very strange interpretation of this, for example in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich
- ailideex 8y ago
  I meant more on how that is relevant to free speech. The case you cited seems to be about cannabis.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    I'm not really sure. But the ever-expanding scope of the commerce clause is presumably what he refers to as weaponization.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel_v._Unit... (note: I am not saying I disagree with a decision to outlaw discrimination, just pointing out the absurdity that the Commerce Clause was 'interpreted' as being the only way to do this [which ultimately resulted in government limiting free speech])
- sbuttgereit 8y ago
  This is my favorite example of this overreach... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn In hand-wavy terms... in this case the commerce clause was used to prevent a farmer from growing wheat on his own land for use in feeding his own livestock. The federal government had established limits on wheat production at the time as part of the "New Deal".
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    That was not overreach. At the time, laws limited how much wheat a farmer could grow so as to maintain the national price of wheat. (Wheat hasn't been a purely local product in more than a century.) The farmer in the case grew more than his allotment. He sold the allowed amount but then used the excess to feed his own cows, rather than buying it from the market (or taking it out of his original allotment). If allowed, at scale this would render the crop controls meaningless and would have destroyed the price of wheat during a time of war, driving thousands of farmers into destitution and eliminating a potential resource needed for the war effort.
    - sbuttgereit 8y ago
      Of course it was overreach and a tortured interpretation of the commerce clause to get there. The "time of war" argument is completely bogus. The word "war" doesn't appear anywhere in the decision itself nor are its consequences limited to wartime in any way. The law in question was a 1938 law that was trying to increase government management of agriculture economic activity. While progressive are happy to use any crisis that comes along to further this sort of overreach into economic activity, including war, one could equally say that the courts decision was probably at least as influenced by the fact that Roosevelt had appointed 8 of the Justices that heard the case and the court was ideologically aligned with him... since the 1938 law was part of his disastrous economic program (http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409 http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-D...), it's little wonder they sided with the government.
      - 8y ago