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> A company's HR department/accountant does this all the time. This is their core competency. This is not my core competency. My small business doesn't have mo

> A company's HR department/accountant does this all the time. This is their core competency. This is not my core competency. My small business doesn't have money for anything like that. It's me, the owner, doing it instead of doing my business.

vkou 8y ago
So, instead, you're giving all this work as unpaid homework for your employees. Unless their personal time is worthless, it's functionally the same thing as lowering their wages, and contracting out to an accountant. Except that an accountant would probably do it faster and cheaper. In another sub-thread, you said that this should be automated, and that nobody should have to do this busywork. I strongly agree. That's not the world we live in, though. As of today, somebody has to do this busywork - and when that somebody is an expert, they can probably do it a lot better then I can.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  > So, instead, you're giving all this work as unpaid homework for your employees. I literally said that I'm doing it myself. Also, if you're a contractor and don't charge for doing work, that's your problem, not mine - you should adjust your prices.
  - vkou 8y ago
    How is it that you can afford your contractors charging you more, because they are wasting their time doing something they aren't good at, but you can't afford hiring someone who is good at that task? Do you also pay your employees to wash the windows, and vaccum the office, instead of contracting this out to a cleaning service, that can do that busywork cheaper, and better? If my boss wants me to waste my on-the-clock time to wash windows, that's fine with me, but it's poor business sense. I'm not very good at it, and my hourly rates are higher.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      > How is it that you can afford your contractors charging you more, because they are wasting their time doing something they aren't good at, but you can't afford hiring someone who is good at that task? Because a contractor has way less paperwork than I have to deal with for each employee - at least in my country. We're also free to set our own terms instead of the lawfully required ones, and generally, contractors in IT want that. I'm even doing the contractor paperwork for some of my contractors as it's very easy - I can basically generate it automatically; definitely not the case with employees. An employee also costs way more money (that goes to the government). > Do you also pay your employees to wash the windows, and vaccum the office Irrelevant argumentative foul. No paperwork is eliminated doing that and no other advantage is gained doing that, so of course I'm not doing it.
      - vkou 8y ago
        > No paperwork is eliminated doing that and no other advantage is gained doing that, so of course I'm not doing it. > Because a contractor has way less paperwork than I have to deal with for each employee Are you saying that: Amount of paperwork that you have to do for an employee + amount of paperwork that one of your employees has to do for himself > Amount of paperwork that you have to do for a contractor + amount of paperwork that one of your contractors has to do for himself? I strongly doubt that is the case. But I'm not a contractor, and I haven't enumerated the work involved.
        TomMarius 8y ago
        > I strongly doubt that is the case. But I'm not a contractor, and I haven't enumerated the work involved. That's exactly the case, and additionally I'm paying around 30% more per employee to the government. Being a contractor in my country means filling a maximum of 2 forms per year, out of which one is a registration form and the second one has to be filled anyways even if you're an employee, you just fill a different box. Having an employee is at least 7 different forms after hiring and then at least 4 more forms per year, a lot of government requirements, compulsory bullshit schooling (bullshit from the employee's viewpoint) that I have to provide, etc.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

vkou 8y ago

So, instead, you're giving all this work as unpaid homework for your employees. Unless their personal time is worthless, it's functionally the same thing as lowering their wages, and contracting out to an accountant. Except that an accountant would probably do it faster and cheaper. In another sub-thread, you said that this should be automated, and that nobody should have to do this busywork. I strongly agree. That's not the world we live in, though. As of today, somebody has to do this busywork - and when that somebody is an expert, they can probably do it a lot better then I can.

TomMarius 8y ago
> So, instead, you're giving all this work as unpaid homework for your employees. I literally said that I'm doing it myself. Also, if you're a contractor and don't charge for doing work, that's your problem, not mine - you should adjust your prices.
- vkou 8y ago
  How is it that you can afford your contractors charging you more, because they are wasting their time doing something they aren't good at, but you can't afford hiring someone who is good at that task? Do you also pay your employees to wash the windows, and vaccum the office, instead of contracting this out to a cleaning service, that can do that busywork cheaper, and better? If my boss wants me to waste my on-the-clock time to wash windows, that's fine with me, but it's poor business sense. I'm not very good at it, and my hourly rates are higher.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    > How is it that you can afford your contractors charging you more, because they are wasting their time doing something they aren't good at, but you can't afford hiring someone who is good at that task? Because a contractor has way less paperwork than I have to deal with for each employee - at least in my country. We're also free to set our own terms instead of the lawfully required ones, and generally, contractors in IT want that. I'm even doing the contractor paperwork for some of my contractors as it's very easy - I can basically generate it automatically; definitely not the case with employees. An employee also costs way more money (that goes to the government). > Do you also pay your employees to wash the windows, and vaccum the office Irrelevant argumentative foul. No paperwork is eliminated doing that and no other advantage is gained doing that, so of course I'm not doing it.
    - vkou 8y ago
      > No paperwork is eliminated doing that and no other advantage is gained doing that, so of course I'm not doing it. > Because a contractor has way less paperwork than I have to deal with for each employee Are you saying that: Amount of paperwork that you have to do for an employee + amount of paperwork that one of your employees has to do for himself > Amount of paperwork that you have to do for a contractor + amount of paperwork that one of your contractors has to do for himself? I strongly doubt that is the case. But I'm not a contractor, and I haven't enumerated the work involved.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        > I strongly doubt that is the case. But I'm not a contractor, and I haven't enumerated the work involved. That's exactly the case, and additionally I'm paying around 30% more per employee to the government. Being a contractor in my country means filling a maximum of 2 forms per year, out of which one is a registration form and the second one has to be filled anyways even if you're an employee, you just fill a different box. Having an employee is at least 7 different forms after hiring and then at least 4 more forms per year, a lot of government requirements, compulsory bullshit schooling (bullshit from the employee's viewpoint) that I have to provide, etc.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]