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tl;dr: "The distinction between manipulation and non-manipulative influence depends on whether the influencer is trying to get someone to make some sort of mist

tl;dr: "The distinction between manipulation and non-manipulative influence depends on whether the influencer is trying to get someone to make some sort of mistake in what he thinks, feels, doubts or pays attention to."

jaggederest 8y ago
To add to the summary: From the article, I would say that the essential quality is one of hypocrisy. Manipulative interventions are not authentic, in the sense that the manipulator does not believe what they are trying to get the victim to believe.
- jschwartzi 8y ago
  I'm surprised more people aren't saying this. Many people are forgetting that the manipulator doesn't sincerely believe what they are trying to get you to believe. They're hypocritically pushing you in a direction they will not go. How many of the ad executives who advertised cigarettes in the 90s smoked? Do you think Phillip Morris knew that cigarettes caused lung cancer? If so, the advertising was a form of manipulation. As another example, if your girlfriend is trying to talk you into something that you know she wouldn't do herself, that's manipulative as well.
hinkley 8y ago
As someone who used to coerce people into doing things that were ultimately good for them, I find that this definition is too close to a moral hazard for my liking. Let me attempt another. We have within us a large set of goals. Some of our short term goals are directly at odds with our long term goals. When we persuade we appeal to a person's long term goals in a way that silences complaints from their competing short term goals. When we manipulate, we exploit or subvert the short term goals to achieve a result. Whether the manipulation is ethical or not depends on whether the goal we chose supports or undermines the target's long term goals. This is subject to re-evaluation at any time, but it was always a manipulation. There are professions where we pay people to manipulate us. Therapists, personal trainers, body workers, all are capable of manipulating our lizard brain, tricking it into doing something it really doesn't want to do. Why? To get us something we always wanted (or previously had). Motivational speakers and coaches try to persuade. They get you so excited about your long term goals that you shout down the disruptive voice in your head that tells you you can't, that you're not good enough, that it's too hard.

jaggederest 8y ago

To add to the summary: From the article, I would say that the essential quality is one of hypocrisy. Manipulative interventions are not authentic, in the sense that the manipulator does not believe what they are trying to get the victim to believe.

jschwartzi 8y ago
I'm surprised more people aren't saying this. Many people are forgetting that the manipulator doesn't sincerely believe what they are trying to get you to believe. They're hypocritically pushing you in a direction they will not go. How many of the ad executives who advertised cigarettes in the 90s smoked? Do you think Phillip Morris knew that cigarettes caused lung cancer? If so, the advertising was a form of manipulation. As another example, if your girlfriend is trying to talk you into something that you know she wouldn't do herself, that's manipulative as well.

hinkley 8y ago

As someone who used to coerce people into doing things that were ultimately good for them, I find that this definition is too close to a moral hazard for my liking. Let me attempt another. We have within us a large set of goals. Some of our short term goals are directly at odds with our long term goals. When we persuade we appeal to a person's long term goals in a way that silences complaints from their competing short term goals. When we manipulate, we exploit or subvert the short term goals to achieve a result. Whether the manipulation is ethical or not depends on whether the goal we chose supports or undermines the target's long term goals. This is subject to re-evaluation at any time, but it was always a manipulation. There are professions where we pay people to manipulate us. Therapists, personal trainers, body workers, all are capable of manipulating our lizard brain, tricking it into doing something it really doesn't want to do. Why? To get us something we always wanted (or previously had). Motivational speakers and coaches try to persuade. They get you so excited about your long term goals that you shout down the disruptive voice in your head that tells you you can't, that you're not good enough, that it's too hard.