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The media's desire for a short and snappy title makes it misleading. It's really about "The End of (Vertically Integrated) Employees". The various outsourced

by jasode 8y ago

The media's desire for a short and snappy title makes it misleading. It's really about "The End of (Vertically Integrated) Employees". The various outsourced positions mentioned in the article are still employees. They're just someone else's employees. Companies just don't want to have vertically integrated employees including janitors and cafeteria workers. (E.g. Outsource to Aramark food services and their employees.) They also don't want white-collar employees who aren't necessarily "core" to their business. (E.g. Outsource to Accenture Consulting's employees.)

ghaff 8y ago
In general, I agree. But it's also the case that many of the outsourcing companies that provide mostly unskilled services tend to hire people as contractors to the degree permitted by law (or beyond) whereas, historically, the mailroom clerk was an entry-level position in a vertically integrated company.
- rossdavidh 8y ago
  One downside I see at many companies is that they have no internal jobs like this, to use as a test period for new employees. If you used to use the mailroom clerk (or whatever) position as a test bed to find out things like, does this person have a good work ethic? that cannot be determined in an interview or a resume, then outsourcing those positions is a problem.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    That's true. On the other hand, the "work your way up from the mailroom" model is somewhat predicated on an employment model where people may stay with the same employer for decades--or at least an extended period. [ADDED: For professional jobs, internships and co-op jobs can provide a somewhat similar function.]
    - rossdavidh 8y ago
      True. The assumption of "we don't need/want long term employees" is also something that will be challenged if we see a prolonged period of labor scarcity. Of course, that's a big "if".
blub 8y ago
And they also don't want to have programmers as vertically integrated employees. Whoopsie, it looks like we were just well paid peasants all along, instead of being part of the ruling class.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  Highly paid contractors == peasants Hmm...
  - nerdponx 8y ago
    Depends on how highly paid. A 401(k) with employer match, subsidized group-rate health insurance, and (in New York) pre-tax transit benefits, is a big increase in effective income. And again, this only applies to the highly-paid. Now consider the less-highly paid.

by jasode 8y ago

ghaff 8y ago

In general, I agree. But it's also the case that many of the outsourcing companies that provide mostly unskilled services tend to hire people as contractors to the degree permitted by law (or beyond) whereas, historically, the mailroom clerk was an entry-level position in a vertically integrated company.

rossdavidh 8y ago
One downside I see at many companies is that they have no internal jobs like this, to use as a test period for new employees. If you used to use the mailroom clerk (or whatever) position as a test bed to find out things like, does this person have a good work ethic? that cannot be determined in an interview or a resume, then outsourcing those positions is a problem.
- ghaff 8y ago
  That's true. On the other hand, the "work your way up from the mailroom" model is somewhat predicated on an employment model where people may stay with the same employer for decades--or at least an extended period. [ADDED: For professional jobs, internships and co-op jobs can provide a somewhat similar function.]
  - rossdavidh 8y ago
    True. The assumption of "we don't need/want long term employees" is also something that will be challenged if we see a prolonged period of labor scarcity. Of course, that's a big "if".

blub 8y ago

And they also don't want to have programmers as vertically integrated employees. Whoopsie, it looks like we were just well paid peasants all along, instead of being part of the ruling class.

paulddraper 8y ago
Highly paid contractors == peasants Hmm...
- nerdponx 8y ago
  Depends on how highly paid. A 401(k) with employer match, subsidized group-rate health insurance, and (in New York) pre-tax transit benefits, is a big increase in effective income. And again, this only applies to the highly-paid. Now consider the less-highly paid.