3 ms·

> an older web paradigm of constructing elaborate html pages on the server side and pushing it out and letting some basic extra js stuff augment it. Sounds lik

> an older web paradigm of constructing elaborate html pages on the server side and pushing it out and letting some basic extra js stuff augment it. Sounds like an awesome idea. > That's what lead to things like server side HTML form definition and form handling code. You make these sound like bad things. > those types of things conflict and overlap with things like React So why presume the thing to abandon isn't React for many use cases? > The backend is turning more into a data/API/GraphQL service than "get html" service that was popular when these frameworks emerged. Which is fine if you're building a complex web app but stop encouraging people to build content sites this way. It's a terrible idea and they usually have deep UX flaws due to incomplete attempts to rebuild functionality that you get for free if you stop reinventing the wheel. 50% of the sites I visit seem to break some subtle aspect of bookmarking, navigation, caching, reloading or something else that they have no business messing with.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago
Yes! There are an awful lot of web sites out there--including the one we're on right now--which are, well, web sites, not web apps. I have a strong suspicion this conflation comes from reasoning kind of like this: (1) My web site would benefit from some kind of API. (2) Hey, if it has an API, wouldn't it be simpler if it just had an API, and all interaction was through clients? (3) So, [insert JavaScript framework] to the rescue! It'll be just like the original web site, but better! Except that it isn't automatically "better" for either performance or usability. Content-focused sites tend to perform very well using the server-side model.
KyeRussell 8y ago
The world needs more people like you. Thank you. I have a very varied workload which includes both complex web applications and content driven sites (very basic, accomplishable-by-WordPress marketing sites). I had a client move their very basic portfolio + blog site to a new developer who rewrote it from scratch. The new site has a loading / splash page before the real site displays. It's entirely JS driven and ticks all the boxes for bad implementation (badly implemented fake links, no use of the history API, bad accessibility.etc). I don't see how this is not a step backwards. Nothing was gained here except for some resume-driven development. Frankly, it strikes me as something that inexperienced developers do because they aren't aware of a world outside of React (or at the very least consider it to be obsolete).
- gkya 8y ago
  What we have is basically worse than flash. At least nothing serious except video was strictly dependent on Flash.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago

Yes! There are an awful lot of web sites out there--including the one we're on right now--which are, well, web sites, not web apps. I have a strong suspicion this conflation comes from reasoning kind of like this: (1) My web site would benefit from some kind of API. (2) Hey, if it has an API, wouldn't it be simpler if it just had an API, and all interaction was through clients? (3) So, [insert JavaScript framework] to the rescue! It'll be just like the original web site, but better! Except that it isn't automatically "better" for either performance or usability. Content-focused sites tend to perform very well using the server-side model.

KyeRussell 8y ago

The world needs more people like you. Thank you. I have a very varied workload which includes both complex web applications and content driven sites (very basic, accomplishable-by-WordPress marketing sites). I had a client move their very basic portfolio + blog site to a new developer who rewrote it from scratch. The new site has a loading / splash page before the real site displays. It's entirely JS driven and ticks all the boxes for bad implementation (badly implemented fake links, no use of the history API, bad accessibility.etc). I don't see how this is not a step backwards. Nothing was gained here except for some resume-driven development. Frankly, it strikes me as something that inexperienced developers do because they aren't aware of a world outside of React (or at the very least consider it to be obsolete).

gkya 8y ago
What we have is basically worse than flash. At least nothing serious except video was strictly dependent on Flash.