5 ms·

It bums me out that the fields medal is largely considered the top prize in mathematics, yet it has age restrictions. To people outside the field, this means th

It bums me out that the fields medal is largely considered the top prize in mathematics, yet it has age restrictions. To people outside the field, this means that significant developments may go underreported. Edit: Let me address the down votes / polarization on this comment: Ageism in the most esteemed prize of a particular field seems obviously wrong to me. Is there a better alternative available? (That said: kudos to the winners! Truly great achievements all around.)

drharby 8y ago
Echo your concerns. Systemic ageism discriminates against diverse life paths
sykhic 8y ago
There’s a commonly held belief (myth?) that mathematics is a young person's pursuit in the sense of great discoveries. If you look at Erdös you see most of his great contributions occurring when he was younger and he was prolific throughout his life. I think the downvotes come from your sentence about significant developments going under reported. I don’t think this happens at all. If someone discovers something great or profound in math no one cares about the age of the discoverer. Wiles was given a special prize because he was past the age of 40 when he proved Fermat's Last Theorem.
- sanxiyn 8y ago
  Another example is Yitang Zhang and prime gap. He was over 50, so no Fields Medal, but he won many other prizes.
- Nokinside 8y ago
  It's possible that things are changing over time. When the mathematical knowledge increases, does the general character of the mathematical problems stay the same in the terms of required work and time? It's possible the problem set that young people can solve before they turn 40 will decrease after some time.
hackernewsacct 8y ago
I agree. If you look at what a mathematician does they sit around and think. You don't have that sort of luxury if you are from a poor family and have to worry about basic survival. In many cases (not all) the people that complete major accomplishment X at young age Y is from an upper middle class to upper class family with lots of life advantages. Not everyone have these advantages early in life and may eventually get to those positions due to their talents, but it may take them longer given their life situations. There are poor but extremely talented underrepresented people out there the world may never know. We tend to celebrate talent from the elite class, not the poor. The elite are given resources they need to succeed, the poor are often overlooked. This can cause a major talent drain from truly exceptional but unknown folks in the world.
- simion314 8y ago
  Is this a problem only in countries where you have to pay a lot to study? I did not had to pay for my higher education and the people that had a high talent and potentials achieved good results, there was no need to work to make money for studying and if you are good you got positions at University or get jobs at high paying companies.
  - hackernewsacct 8y ago
    In countries like the US it starts at birth. Families in rich areas will send their children to elite, selective high schools that cost upward $30,000+. Some of these schools have strong math and science curriculum and are considered direct feeders to elite universities, such as the ivies. These poorer kids could be high IQ'd just like the richer ones, but with less access to resources, may be very behind their richer peers. These richer kids will get into the elite schools, while the poor kids may go to lower end ones or not go to colleges at all. Rich parents can hire their children SAT tutors, ensure their children go to good STEM schools, have various college prep resources for their children, while the poor parents don't know anything about college, sent their children to lesser high schools, and have children that may be just as bright, but essentially ones that have no chance to be admitted to the places they otherwise might have gotten into. College admissions at elite colleges favor children from the elite that had the resources to prepare their children for such pedigree. There are exceptions to the rule, but many poor families face deep struggle. This is regardless of however high IQ'd their children may be.
Kalium 8y ago
You're right. It does seem ageist, when seen in isolation from the outside. It seems to suggest that the field of mathematics only and solely cares about the work of young mathematicians. Yet, is it perhaps possible that this position may signify a person possessed of a wonderful opportunity to become more educated? The Fields Medal is not intended to be the capstone recognition of a mathematcian's career any more than the Clark Medal is in economics. It's intended to award outstanding achievement for a younger contributor in a field that infamously tends to worship the more senior. The IMU awards other medals as well, including one for lifetime achievement. In short, you're completely right to be bummed out! But perhaps you could take this glorious opportunity to learn more.
- beambot 8y ago
  Hence my ask in the edit: which specific prize / award / recognition can I follow as an amateur math afficionado that doesn't suffer from age bias? You didn't mention one, beyond saying that it exists or that it's given in special circumstances... Which is the challenge re:Fields being the most prestigious.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    You're right! Perhaps you might start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mathematical_Union#Prizes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mathematical_Uni... I was attempting to encourage you to engage in the wonders of self-education through research, rather than spoon-feed you particular answers. Please accept my apologies for mistaking your desires.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 8y ago
      Please don't be personally rude on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
nefreat 8y ago
Abel Prize is pretty popular and has esteemed winners. The only requirement is that the person being nominated be alive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Prize
thraway180306 8y ago
It is in fact age limited precisely to combat ageism of the early 20th century. Otherwise only elders would get it (would they outlive the queue of their masters), when it's irrelevant to their career development (but beneficial to the prize's prestige). It was intentionally set up with this reasoning - not to be about lifetime contribution (which really compounds linearly in mathematics, there is no age dropoff "in the data" if you will) but making career easier for a very few young upstarts. Otherwise it would be old people game.
paulpauper 8y ago
if the accomplishment is worthy it will get recognition regardless of age
zhonwang 8y ago
This seems better to me than the Nobel Prize where it may take Decades for your work to be recognized and is kind of a nice retirement gift for old academics. The Fields though can forever change your career trajectory when you win it.
zhonwang 8y ago
This is a strange attitude to have. The prize was specifically designed to highlight the work of promising young Mathematicians so why is this an issue? It would be like complaining that the Little League World Series is ageist because it doesn't allow older competitors. Besides there is also the Abel Prize which is equally if not more prestigious, is open to any living Mathematician and has a far more substantial monetary prize attached.

drharby 8y ago

Echo your concerns. Systemic ageism discriminates against diverse life paths

sykhic 8y ago

There’s a commonly held belief (myth?) that mathematics is a young person's pursuit in the sense of great discoveries. If you look at Erdös you see most of his great contributions occurring when he was younger and he was prolific throughout his life. I think the downvotes come from your sentence about significant developments going under reported. I don’t think this happens at all. If someone discovers something great or profound in math no one cares about the age of the discoverer. Wiles was given a special prize because he was past the age of 40 when he proved Fermat's Last Theorem.

sanxiyn 8y ago
Another example is Yitang Zhang and prime gap. He was over 50, so no Fields Medal, but he won many other prizes.
Nokinside 8y ago
It's possible that things are changing over time. When the mathematical knowledge increases, does the general character of the mathematical problems stay the same in the terms of required work and time? It's possible the problem set that young people can solve before they turn 40 will decrease after some time.

hackernewsacct 8y ago

I agree. If you look at what a mathematician does they sit around and think. You don't have that sort of luxury if you are from a poor family and have to worry about basic survival. In many cases (not all) the people that complete major accomplishment X at young age Y is from an upper middle class to upper class family with lots of life advantages. Not everyone have these advantages early in life and may eventually get to those positions due to their talents, but it may take them longer given their life situations. There are poor but extremely talented underrepresented people out there the world may never know. We tend to celebrate talent from the elite class, not the poor. The elite are given resources they need to succeed, the poor are often overlooked. This can cause a major talent drain from truly exceptional but unknown folks in the world.

simion314 8y ago
Is this a problem only in countries where you have to pay a lot to study? I did not had to pay for my higher education and the people that had a high talent and potentials achieved good results, there was no need to work to make money for studying and if you are good you got positions at University or get jobs at high paying companies.
- hackernewsacct 8y ago
  In countries like the US it starts at birth. Families in rich areas will send their children to elite, selective high schools that cost upward $30,000+. Some of these schools have strong math and science curriculum and are considered direct feeders to elite universities, such as the ivies. These poorer kids could be high IQ'd just like the richer ones, but with less access to resources, may be very behind their richer peers. These richer kids will get into the elite schools, while the poor kids may go to lower end ones or not go to colleges at all. Rich parents can hire their children SAT tutors, ensure their children go to good STEM schools, have various college prep resources for their children, while the poor parents don't know anything about college, sent their children to lesser high schools, and have children that may be just as bright, but essentially ones that have no chance to be admitted to the places they otherwise might have gotten into. College admissions at elite colleges favor children from the elite that had the resources to prepare their children for such pedigree. There are exceptions to the rule, but many poor families face deep struggle. This is regardless of however high IQ'd their children may be.

Kalium 8y ago

You're right. It does seem ageist, when seen in isolation from the outside. It seems to suggest that the field of mathematics only and solely cares about the work of young mathematicians. Yet, is it perhaps possible that this position may signify a person possessed of a wonderful opportunity to become more educated? The Fields Medal is not intended to be the capstone recognition of a mathematcian's career any more than the Clark Medal is in economics. It's intended to award outstanding achievement for a younger contributor in a field that infamously tends to worship the more senior. The IMU awards other medals as well, including one for lifetime achievement. In short, you're completely right to be bummed out! But perhaps you could take this glorious opportunity to learn more.

beambot 8y ago
Hence my ask in the edit: which specific prize / award / recognition can I follow as an amateur math afficionado that doesn't suffer from age bias? You didn't mention one, beyond saying that it exists or that it's given in special circumstances... Which is the challenge re:Fields being the most prestigious.
- Kalium 8y ago
  You're right! Perhaps you might start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mathematical_Union#Prizes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mathematical_Uni... I was attempting to encourage you to engage in the wonders of self-education through research, rather than spoon-feed you particular answers. Please accept my apologies for mistaking your desires.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 8y ago
    Please don't be personally rude on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

nefreat 8y ago

Abel Prize is pretty popular and has esteemed winners. The only requirement is that the person being nominated be alive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Prize

thraway180306 8y ago

It is in fact age limited precisely to combat ageism of the early 20th century. Otherwise only elders would get it (would they outlive the queue of their masters), when it's irrelevant to their career development (but beneficial to the prize's prestige). It was intentionally set up with this reasoning - not to be about lifetime contribution (which really compounds linearly in mathematics, there is no age dropoff "in the data" if you will) but making career easier for a very few young upstarts. Otherwise it would be old people game.

paulpauper 8y ago

if the accomplishment is worthy it will get recognition regardless of age

zhonwang 8y ago

This seems better to me than the Nobel Prize where it may take Decades for your work to be recognized and is kind of a nice retirement gift for old academics. The Fields though can forever change your career trajectory when you win it.

zhonwang 8y ago

This is a strange attitude to have. The prize was specifically designed to highlight the work of promising young Mathematicians so why is this an issue? It would be like complaining that the Little League World Series is ageist because it doesn't allow older competitors. Besides there is also the Abel Prize which is equally if not more prestigious, is open to any living Mathematician and has a far more substantial monetary prize attached.