4 ms·

It's funny because your concerns are exactly like that of Bush Sr's advisors in the article. He's also one of the villains.

jerf 8y ago
If you want to believe in Inevitable Doom, go nuts. Possibly literally. But if that's how you want to play things, I probably can't stop you. But at least I tried. It's not a healthy way to live, and I don't think it's one particularly backed by the evidence. In terms of threats I think are likely to impact me over the next twenty years, I still rate "governments instituting stupid economic policies" well over "environmental catastrophe". You look around the world and that's something that happens a lot more often than, say, a port closing or a city being abandoned because of rising seas. There's a nontrivial chance they'll both combine and we'll get stupid economic decisions made because of unjustified panic about environmental issues.
- kerbalspacepro 8y ago
  In your original post you listed out a bunch of issues that never amounted to anything. Did it occur to you that they never amounted to anything because people did shit about them? It wasn't the economy that stopped the Ozone hole from expanding. It wasn't technological innovation that brought down the Soviet Union and ended Red Scare. Did it occur to you that just because you live an insulated life, that these disasters are actually happening right now? It doesn't seem like you're as bad as a denialist, but you're worse than a geopolitical isolationist. You're an individual isolationist and your mantra seems to be, "Fuck you, I've got mine".
  - jerf 8y ago
    "Did it occur to you that they never amounted to anything because people did shit about them?" Then you've admitted the only point I care about here, which is that getting personally panicky about those things would have been a waste of time. Doom is not certain. People do in fact do things in reaction to problems. "Did it occur to you that just because you live an insulated life, that these disasters are actually happening right now?" Read what I wrote again with an eye towards answering those questions, because the answer is there. The Earth is positively saturated with problems... but that's not actually a new state of affairs, despite what youth may think and/or certain people may have told you. You are establishing that problems exist. That is not the question I am answering. I am answering is doom inevitable? And the answer is simple: No. Do not live hopelessly. Do not plan for your future life as if we're all going to be dead in 10 years inevitably because of environmental disaster. There are many disasters in your future with non-zero probability, but living as if they have already occurred just moves them into the present with 100% probability. That's not a win. In terms of reading my mind, you'd be doing better off if you first read my text, instead of what you assume my text is going to say. Or trying to figure out which bogeyman to associate me with so you can stop thinking and start emoting. That's not a healthy psychological pattern. Who taught you to do that? What benefit do they get from it? Are you benefiting from it? (Hint: No.)
    - throwaway5752 8y ago
      There is an inevitable (if nothing is done), slowly unfolding tragedy in motion right now. You are the one that is reacting irrationally, in spite of the number of words you've thrown at the problem. Your sentiment really embodies the worst kind of free-rider: "you shouldn't worry, because other people have solved problems for me in the past".
      - zaroth 8y ago
        This is a terribly uncharitable (downright hostile) interpretation of jerfs’ actually thoughtful response. It’s not about free-riding. The grandparent posted, “I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left. Should I even bother with...” and there’s a lot in jerfs’ response which I hope GP reads and reflects on. The world is saturated with imminent disaster. Perhaps the entire universe hangs on a thread. The way we (humans) get out of it, and they way we always have, is not nihilistic defeatism. In the face of continuous doomsday prophecy, the optimal individual response is absolutely to tune it completely out and focus on becoming the best you can be at that thing that you do. And throwaway5752 you trying to moralize that jerfs is “the worst kind of free-rider” is an asinine ad hominem attack that I’d say only amplifies the underlying truth of how important it is to tune out voices like yours.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - kerbalspacepro 8y ago
      I guess we need to define what you mean by "personally panicky". I read you saying that a person shouldn't be personally panicky as "a person should not worry." That's where my annoyance comes from. The grandparent comment's Fight or Flight instinct should be going off at ALL mentions of AGW. They need to be thinking about the next decades of their life with AGW in mind. If they live in Florida, they should seriously consider not living in Florida. If they have a house that's near a beach they need to leave. If they don't live in the developing world, they need to figure out how to get to the developed world ASAP. You're right that nobody should be brought into a crippling depression because of global warming, but we're far past being optimistic about it. Also, your "who is making money off your panic" thread is stupid and you should stop. People panic for a variety of reasons and only a small minority are "because panic was induced by a second party".
- titzer 8y ago
  Well, you're in a combative mood, judging from all the replies you're posting, but I'll risk it. > It's not a healthy way to live Oh, agreed. Trust me. I've been neck deep in this one. It'll warp your mind. Doesn't mean it's not true. Just like the Sun blowing up to a red giant in 5 billion years. Gonna happen. Profound, devastating climate change has already begun. Human civilization is remarkably fragile and will teeter and crash in the next 50-200 years. > I don't think it's one particularly backed by the evidence. Well, in the same way that the Sun shows no current signs of blowing up into a red giant the size of Earth's orbit, sure. But I get the impression you're not able (or willing) to run a few of the very obvious scenarios forward in your mind. This is reality. It's coming. Maybe you're like me and will be lucky to live out your life in relative luxury before most of the damage comes home to roost. Great. I'm hoping for 40-50 more years of merrymaking, too. But make no mistake, we are totally fucked. But then you go on to say, > In terms of threats I think are likely to impact me over the next twenty years, I still rate "governments instituting stupid economic policies" And that's my thunder button right there. For fuck's sake, you gotta give up this idea that this mythical "economy" and "economical policies" is all there is. Like your entire life is driven by the stock market or your ability to get bananas in January. Look at the Earth. Fuck your bananas in January and your backyard pool. Fuck your manicured lawn. Seriously. 7 billion humans thinking and acting exactly like this is how we get here, and then you have the gall to moan about "stupid economic decisions made because of unjustified panic about environmental issues." Fuuuuck. This is what so frustrating, because it is just impossible to get through your economic interest to make you see that hey, we are deep shit right now.

jerf 8y ago

If you want to believe in Inevitable Doom, go nuts. Possibly literally. But if that's how you want to play things, I probably can't stop you. But at least I tried. It's not a healthy way to live, and I don't think it's one particularly backed by the evidence. In terms of threats I think are likely to impact me over the next twenty years, I still rate "governments instituting stupid economic policies" well over "environmental catastrophe". You look around the world and that's something that happens a lot more often than, say, a port closing or a city being abandoned because of rising seas. There's a nontrivial chance they'll both combine and we'll get stupid economic decisions made because of unjustified panic about environmental issues.

kerbalspacepro 8y ago
In your original post you listed out a bunch of issues that never amounted to anything. Did it occur to you that they never amounted to anything because people did shit about them? It wasn't the economy that stopped the Ozone hole from expanding. It wasn't technological innovation that brought down the Soviet Union and ended Red Scare. Did it occur to you that just because you live an insulated life, that these disasters are actually happening right now? It doesn't seem like you're as bad as a denialist, but you're worse than a geopolitical isolationist. You're an individual isolationist and your mantra seems to be, "Fuck you, I've got mine".
- jerf 8y ago
  "Did it occur to you that they never amounted to anything because people did shit about them?" Then you've admitted the only point I care about here, which is that getting personally panicky about those things would have been a waste of time. Doom is not certain. People do in fact do things in reaction to problems. "Did it occur to you that just because you live an insulated life, that these disasters are actually happening right now?" Read what I wrote again with an eye towards answering those questions, because the answer is there. The Earth is positively saturated with problems... but that's not actually a new state of affairs, despite what youth may think and/or certain people may have told you. You are establishing that problems exist. That is not the question I am answering. I am answering is doom inevitable? And the answer is simple: No. Do not live hopelessly. Do not plan for your future life as if we're all going to be dead in 10 years inevitably because of environmental disaster. There are many disasters in your future with non-zero probability, but living as if they have already occurred just moves them into the present with 100% probability. That's not a win. In terms of reading my mind, you'd be doing better off if you first read my text, instead of what you assume my text is going to say. Or trying to figure out which bogeyman to associate me with so you can stop thinking and start emoting. That's not a healthy psychological pattern. Who taught you to do that? What benefit do they get from it? Are you benefiting from it? (Hint: No.)
  - throwaway5752 8y ago
    There is an inevitable (if nothing is done), slowly unfolding tragedy in motion right now. You are the one that is reacting irrationally, in spite of the number of words you've thrown at the problem. Your sentiment really embodies the worst kind of free-rider: "you shouldn't worry, because other people have solved problems for me in the past".
    - zaroth 8y ago
      This is a terribly uncharitable (downright hostile) interpretation of jerfs’ actually thoughtful response. It’s not about free-riding. The grandparent posted, “I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left. Should I even bother with...” and there’s a lot in jerfs’ response which I hope GP reads and reflects on. The world is saturated with imminent disaster. Perhaps the entire universe hangs on a thread. The way we (humans) get out of it, and they way we always have, is not nihilistic defeatism. In the face of continuous doomsday prophecy, the optimal individual response is absolutely to tune it completely out and focus on becoming the best you can be at that thing that you do. And throwaway5752 you trying to moralize that jerfs is “the worst kind of free-rider” is an asinine ad hominem attack that I’d say only amplifies the underlying truth of how important it is to tune out voices like yours.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - kerbalspacepro 8y ago
    I guess we need to define what you mean by "personally panicky". I read you saying that a person shouldn't be personally panicky as "a person should not worry." That's where my annoyance comes from. The grandparent comment's Fight or Flight instinct should be going off at ALL mentions of AGW. They need to be thinking about the next decades of their life with AGW in mind. If they live in Florida, they should seriously consider not living in Florida. If they have a house that's near a beach they need to leave. If they don't live in the developing world, they need to figure out how to get to the developed world ASAP. You're right that nobody should be brought into a crippling depression because of global warming, but we're far past being optimistic about it. Also, your "who is making money off your panic" thread is stupid and you should stop. People panic for a variety of reasons and only a small minority are "because panic was induced by a second party".
titzer 8y ago
Well, you're in a combative mood, judging from all the replies you're posting, but I'll risk it. > It's not a healthy way to live Oh, agreed. Trust me. I've been neck deep in this one. It'll warp your mind. Doesn't mean it's not true. Just like the Sun blowing up to a red giant in 5 billion years. Gonna happen. Profound, devastating climate change has already begun. Human civilization is remarkably fragile and will teeter and crash in the next 50-200 years. > I don't think it's one particularly backed by the evidence. Well, in the same way that the Sun shows no current signs of blowing up into a red giant the size of Earth's orbit, sure. But I get the impression you're not able (or willing) to run a few of the very obvious scenarios forward in your mind. This is reality. It's coming. Maybe you're like me and will be lucky to live out your life in relative luxury before most of the damage comes home to roost. Great. I'm hoping for 40-50 more years of merrymaking, too. But make no mistake, we are totally fucked. But then you go on to say, > In terms of threats I think are likely to impact me over the next twenty years, I still rate "governments instituting stupid economic policies" And that's my thunder button right there. For fuck's sake, you gotta give up this idea that this mythical "economy" and "economical policies" is all there is. Like your entire life is driven by the stock market or your ability to get bananas in January. Look at the Earth. Fuck your bananas in January and your backyard pool. Fuck your manicured lawn. Seriously. 7 billion humans thinking and acting exactly like this is how we get here, and then you have the gall to moan about "stupid economic decisions made because of unjustified panic about environmental issues." Fuuuuck. This is what so frustrating, because it is just impossible to get through your economic interest to make you see that hey, we are deep shit right now.