4 ms·

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in a

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

cazum 8y ago
this is a weak argument, as it can be made for literally any situation. Israel massacring Palestinians? Hey man, they can do whatever they want, we don't have any right to tell them not to and it doesn't make what they're doing any less wrong!
- it_learnses 8y ago
  You mean Palestinians trying to massacre as many jews as possible and Israel stopping them due to their superior defense capabilities.
manigandham 8y ago
They actually are the world police. Sovereignty, nations, and conflict between them are part of human nature.
chillacy 8y ago
If government can’t produce collective action, then market forces will never overcome the prisoners dilemma on its own.
mywacaday 8y ago
Agree they are not the world police but for EU/US citizens they are our government and should reflect our views and morals. Do we believe in censorship? Do we believe in borderline cheap labor? I don't have the answers but there are hard questions there, not just for our governments but for us as voters.
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country To believe that China does not attempt to influence other countries is naive. China puts a great deal of pressure on other nations with regard to things like recognition of Taiwan or inviting the Dalai Lama to speak. These have occasionally been in the news over the last few years, e.g. China’s retaliatory measures against Norway for Liu Xiabo winning the Nobel Peace Prize, but in fact they go back decades – when Michelangelo Antonioni was showing his documentary film Chung Kuo around in the early 1970s, in European countries where a screening was organized the local Chinese embassy would raise scandal.
- neom 8y ago
  China certainly has a very strong view on the make-up of the region, much is historical, some of it fair. However, we don't see them going around converting everyone to communism. In fact, even all the investment they are doing in Africa right now, very little of the social aspects of china are being exported. Xi Jinping has always maintained: china is not for export.
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    > In fact, even all the investment they are doing in Africa right now, very little of the social aspects of china are being exported. China has repeatedly lobbied, with some success now, for East African nations to adopt its "Great Firewall" network infrastructure.
- vermontdevil 8y ago
  Don't forget the pressure on Marriott to fire an employee for clicking 'like' on a Tibet-related topic. And for pressuring airlines not to list Taiwan on their websites for booking.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Neither US or EU are the world police If an American pays a Chinese businessman in China a bribe, that's an FCPA [1] violation. If the U.S. government wanted to prevent American technology companies from helping China's dictator build a modern dystopia, it would have precedent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act
ckocagil 8y ago
The US and EU have (relatively) free markets where Chinese companies can compete. But not the other way. They can simply stop trading with China unless China opens their market as well.
simias 8y ago
I think that point would have some merit if US, EU and China worked completely in isolation at every level. Let everybody sort their mess like they want. But clearly that's not the case, China's economy is very tightly linked to ours, as such the way we trade with them influences their internal politics. When a US or EU company moves production to China it's not politically neutral, this company implicitly endorses the Chinese political system. As such I don't see why we couldn't regulate these things to suit our principles and interests. It's not about saying "stop censoring the internet or we'll nuke you", it's about saying "if you want to do business with us we demand that you meet these standards, otherwise no biggy, we'll just go elsewhere." And China does attempt to do the same thing, for instance in many African countries. It's less obvious because they're still ramping up their diplomacy, US and EU have a huge headstart there.
MarkMc 8y ago
Would you apply the same policy to countries with worse human-rights violations, like North Korea?

cazum 8y ago

this is a weak argument, as it can be made for literally any situation. Israel massacring Palestinians? Hey man, they can do whatever they want, we don't have any right to tell them not to and it doesn't make what they're doing any less wrong!

it_learnses 8y ago
You mean Palestinians trying to massacre as many jews as possible and Israel stopping them due to their superior defense capabilities.

manigandham 8y ago

They actually are the world police. Sovereignty, nations, and conflict between them are part of human nature.

chillacy 8y ago

If government can’t produce collective action, then market forces will never overcome the prisoners dilemma on its own.

mywacaday 8y ago

Agree they are not the world police but for EU/US citizens they are our government and should reflect our views and morals. Do we believe in censorship? Do we believe in borderline cheap labor? I don't have the answers but there are hard questions there, not just for our governments but for us as voters.

Mediterraneo10 8y ago

> They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country To believe that China does not attempt to influence other countries is naive. China puts a great deal of pressure on other nations with regard to things like recognition of Taiwan or inviting the Dalai Lama to speak. These have occasionally been in the news over the last few years, e.g. China’s retaliatory measures against Norway for Liu Xiabo winning the Nobel Peace Prize, but in fact they go back decades – when Michelangelo Antonioni was showing his documentary film Chung Kuo around in the early 1970s, in European countries where a screening was organized the local Chinese embassy would raise scandal.

neom 8y ago
China certainly has a very strong view on the make-up of the region, much is historical, some of it fair. However, we don't see them going around converting everyone to communism. In fact, even all the investment they are doing in Africa right now, very little of the social aspects of china are being exported. Xi Jinping has always maintained: china is not for export.
- Mediterraneo10 8y ago
  > In fact, even all the investment they are doing in Africa right now, very little of the social aspects of china are being exported. China has repeatedly lobbied, with some success now, for East African nations to adopt its "Great Firewall" network infrastructure.
vermontdevil 8y ago
Don't forget the pressure on Marriott to fire an employee for clicking 'like' on a Tibet-related topic. And for pressuring airlines not to list Taiwan on their websites for booking.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Neither US or EU are the world police If an American pays a Chinese businessman in China a bribe, that's an FCPA [1] violation. If the U.S. government wanted to prevent American technology companies from helping China's dictator build a modern dystopia, it would have precedent. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

ckocagil 8y ago

The US and EU have (relatively) free markets where Chinese companies can compete. But not the other way. They can simply stop trading with China unless China opens their market as well.

simias 8y ago

I think that point would have some merit if US, EU and China worked completely in isolation at every level. Let everybody sort their mess like they want. But clearly that's not the case, China's economy is very tightly linked to ours, as such the way we trade with them influences their internal politics. When a US or EU company moves production to China it's not politically neutral, this company implicitly endorses the Chinese political system. As such I don't see why we couldn't regulate these things to suit our principles and interests. It's not about saying "stop censoring the internet or we'll nuke you", it's about saying "if you want to do business with us we demand that you meet these standards, otherwise no biggy, we'll just go elsewhere." And China does attempt to do the same thing, for instance in many African countries. It's less obvious because they're still ramping up their diplomacy, US and EU have a huge headstart there.

MarkMc 8y ago

Would you apply the same policy to countries with worse human-rights violations, like North Korea?