4 ms·

A tactically-'ethical' startup of the near future's motto: "Don't be Google".

pixelpoet 8y ago
It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto "don't be evil" and then later remove it once they've got everyone's data.
- SquareWheel 8y ago
  Please do not spread misinformation. They never changed their motto. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html
  - awinter-py 8y ago
    they moved it down or reworded it or something https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-dont-be-evil-code-conduct-removed-alphabet-a8361276.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...
  - thinkingemote 8y ago
    How about this for accuracy: "It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto 'don't be evil' and then later heavily demote it once they've got everyone's data"
    - SquareWheel 8y ago
      Still reads as irrational to me, but at least it's technically accurate. It's worth remembering that "data" as they say stales very quickly. Knowing that you ordered a package two months ago is far less interesting than knowing you're expecting one next week. Or that you'll be booking a plane trip soon, and wouldn't you just love to know Delta is cheapest on that date? "Having your data" isn't a binary concept. Their services degrade substantially once you turn off the firehose. You'll still get ads, but they won't be tailored to you. Maps won't be able to show your current position. Assistant won't be able to recognize your voice. And that's fine, if you prefer that approach. But the concept of "having your data" in a historical context is meaningless. The only thing that matters is if that firehose is still available to them. Turn it off if you like. It isn't a lost cause.
      - yborg 8y ago
        > The only thing that matters is if that firehose is still available to them. Which it obviously is, so I'm not sure what point you were making viz. Google. The "turning off" of the items you mention is also entirely a user-visualization exercise. All of your data is still there inside the panopticon. Even not using Google service anywhere does not free you from it, if you send email to a Gmail user, lo, Google has it. So concerns about the behavior of a company with the market presence of Google are very relevant.
        SquareWheel 8y ago
        >The "turning off" of the items you mention is also entirely a user-visualization exercise. Prove it. They offer controls for almost every service they provide. If you're going to claim they're visual-only, then prove that these controls do nothing. https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols https://adssettings.google.com/ https://adssettings.google.com/
      - smsm42 8y ago
        > It's worth remembering that "data" as they say stales very quickly. Knowing that you ordered a package two months ago is far less interesting than knowing you're expecting one next week. Comparatively less, yes, but knowing about all your packages is still very interesting and hugely privacy sensitive. > You'll still get ads, but they won't be tailored to you. TBH, all tailoring I've seen is comically bad. Yeah, they can know I bought shoes so they would show me shoe ads for the next three months. As if that's how humans behave - once we're in "shoe heat", we do nothing but buy shoes for three months and the task of the good ad system is to capture when the "shoe heat" starts and capitalize on it. I think if one wrote a comedy show about robots trying to understand human society and getting it hilariously wrong every time, the behavior of ad networks could supply great material for years. > But the concept of "having your data" in a historical context is meaningless. No it's not. There's a lot of private things in one's past than can be dug up and (ab)used. Ask any politician who went through an electoral campaign.
        8y ago

It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto "don't be evil" and then later remove it once they've got everyone's data.

SquareWheel 8y ago
Please do not spread misinformation. They never changed their motto. https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html
- awinter-py 8y ago
  they moved it down or reworded it or something https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-dont-be-evil-code-conduct-removed-alphabet-a8361276.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne...
- thinkingemote 8y ago
  How about this for accuracy: "It is definitely worse to have a startup phase with the motto 'don't be evil' and then later heavily demote it once they've got everyone's data"
  - SquareWheel 8y ago
    Still reads as irrational to me, but at least it's technically accurate. It's worth remembering that "data" as they say stales very quickly. Knowing that you ordered a package two months ago is far less interesting than knowing you're expecting one next week. Or that you'll be booking a plane trip soon, and wouldn't you just love to know Delta is cheapest on that date? "Having your data" isn't a binary concept. Their services degrade substantially once you turn off the firehose. You'll still get ads, but they won't be tailored to you. Maps won't be able to show your current position. Assistant won't be able to recognize your voice. And that's fine, if you prefer that approach. But the concept of "having your data" in a historical context is meaningless. The only thing that matters is if that firehose is still available to them. Turn it off if you like. It isn't a lost cause.
    - yborg 8y ago
      > The only thing that matters is if that firehose is still available to them. Which it obviously is, so I'm not sure what point you were making viz. Google. The "turning off" of the items you mention is also entirely a user-visualization exercise. All of your data is still there inside the panopticon. Even not using Google service anywhere does not free you from it, if you send email to a Gmail user, lo, Google has it. So concerns about the behavior of a company with the market presence of Google are very relevant.
      - SquareWheel 8y ago
        >The "turning off" of the items you mention is also entirely a user-visualization exercise. Prove it. They offer controls for almost every service they provide. If you're going to claim they're visual-only, then prove that these controls do nothing. https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols https://adssettings.google.com/ https://adssettings.google.com/
    - smsm42 8y ago
      > It's worth remembering that "data" as they say stales very quickly. Knowing that you ordered a package two months ago is far less interesting than knowing you're expecting one next week. Comparatively less, yes, but knowing about all your packages is still very interesting and hugely privacy sensitive. > You'll still get ads, but they won't be tailored to you. TBH, all tailoring I've seen is comically bad. Yeah, they can know I bought shoes so they would show me shoe ads for the next three months. As if that's how humans behave - once we're in "shoe heat", we do nothing but buy shoes for three months and the task of the good ad system is to capture when the "shoe heat" starts and capitalize on it. I think if one wrote a comedy show about robots trying to understand human society and getting it hilariously wrong every time, the behavior of ad networks could supply great material for years. > But the concept of "having your data" in a historical context is meaningless. No it's not. There's a lot of private things in one's past than can be dug up and (ab)used. Ask any politician who went through an electoral campaign.
      - 8y ago