3 ms·

I don't really know why you are being downvoted. There are a lot of string libraries that do not work well with Unicode strings. If you natively speak any non-

I don't really know why you are being downvoted. There are a lot of string libraries that do not work well with Unicode strings. If you natively speak any non-European language it can be hard to use those libraries to effectively solve your problems. Not to bad mouth this project, but we don't really need a fast incomplete library.

MrEldritch 8y ago
In the modern development environment, I think it's genuinely fair to say that something which doesn't support Unicode strings cannot be claimed to support strings. It's like saying you have the fastest integer math library ever written, with the minor caveat that it only supports numbers smaller than 256 because it achieves that speed by being simply a hardcoded lookup table, and crashes if you give it anything else.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  Does this library crash like in your example though? There's a difference between "not having Unicode-specific features" and "failing when given Unicode input".
- dwheeler 8y ago
  It appears to support Unicode just fine, you just have to use UTF-8. I find that in most cases you should only use UTF-8 anyway, so in most cases that is not a problem.
  - vbezhenar 8y ago
    If you're using WinAPI, you have to use UCS-16. Converting strings for every call would be abysmal to performance.
    - hrydgard 8y ago
      For most software it's perfectly fine to convert. What Windows API call that takes string input do you call so often that it would be an issue?
    - flohofwoe 8y ago
      There are only very few WinAPI functions which use UCS-2 vs ASCII, and none of them are performance-critical. It's totally fine to convert from/to UTF-8 on the fly, especially since the conversion is extremely cheap (and the rest of the world has moved on to UTF-8 anyway).
      - iforgotpassword 8y ago
        All winapi functions use UCS2. The "ASCII" versions are just wrappers that implicitly convert from the current locale (latin1, ShiftJIS, BIG5, ...) to UCS2. Try passing some Japanese text to the ASCII version of a function on a system that's set to eg. German and see what happens...
        flohofwoe 8y ago
        Most Win32 API functions don't even take string parameters, so there's no separate ASCII or UCS-2 version of those. Of the functions that take strings, the old ...A() versions should never be called anyway since they depend on the obsolete concept of code pages. The proper way to work with strings on Windows (IMHO) is to encode all string data to UTF-8, only encode/decode from/to UCS-2 when needed, and call the ...W() functions explicitely (don't use the global UNICODE define). Also see: http://utf8everywhere.org/ http://utf8everywhere.org/
  - rurban 8y ago
    Nope, big mistake. You cannot just search for "Café" in "Café", as there are multiple representations for the same character. Think of Cyrillic vs Greek, Han vs Hangul. The popular garbage-in, garbage-out doesn't apply to unicode identifiers. That's why the Mac filesystem normalization was correct, and the unix filesystems are all broken. If it's not identifiable it's no identifier. That's why java and cperl are the only languages with proper and safe unicode support. Python 3 is a bit better than Python 2, Perl6 better than Perl5 and the rest, but still don't apply unicode security guidelines for identifiers. It's much better for browsers and email clients. And with case-insensitivity it gets worse, as there are some locale dependent additional rules, for Turkish and Lithuania. And this depends on "some" global settings. http://perl11.org/blog/foldcase.html http://perl11.org/blog/foldcase.html
    - iforgotpassword 8y ago
      Japanese is also great. While there are general rules when you use hiragana vs. katakana, sometimes for stylistic reasons the "wrong" one is used, or some kanji is "spelled out" as hiragana, and depending on context, you might or might not want to include these in your search results. Tbh I just stopped caring and now happily live in my little world where utf8 is the solution to everything, doesn't yield any problems ever, and anyone telling me differently gets completely ignored.

MrEldritch 8y ago

In the modern development environment, I think it's genuinely fair to say that something which doesn't support Unicode strings cannot be claimed to support strings. It's like saying you have the fastest integer math library ever written, with the minor caveat that it only supports numbers smaller than 256 because it achieves that speed by being simply a hardcoded lookup table, and crashes if you give it anything else.

mehrdadn 8y ago
Does this library crash like in your example though? There's a difference between "not having Unicode-specific features" and "failing when given Unicode input".
dwheeler 8y ago
It appears to support Unicode just fine, you just have to use UTF-8. I find that in most cases you should only use UTF-8 anyway, so in most cases that is not a problem.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  If you're using WinAPI, you have to use UCS-16. Converting strings for every call would be abysmal to performance.
  - hrydgard 8y ago
    For most software it's perfectly fine to convert. What Windows API call that takes string input do you call so often that it would be an issue?
  - flohofwoe 8y ago
    There are only very few WinAPI functions which use UCS-2 vs ASCII, and none of them are performance-critical. It's totally fine to convert from/to UTF-8 on the fly, especially since the conversion is extremely cheap (and the rest of the world has moved on to UTF-8 anyway).
    - iforgotpassword 8y ago
      All winapi functions use UCS2. The "ASCII" versions are just wrappers that implicitly convert from the current locale (latin1, ShiftJIS, BIG5, ...) to UCS2. Try passing some Japanese text to the ASCII version of a function on a system that's set to eg. German and see what happens...
      - flohofwoe 8y ago
        Most Win32 API functions don't even take string parameters, so there's no separate ASCII or UCS-2 version of those. Of the functions that take strings, the old ...A() versions should never be called anyway since they depend on the obsolete concept of code pages. The proper way to work with strings on Windows (IMHO) is to encode all string data to UTF-8, only encode/decode from/to UCS-2 when needed, and call the ...W() functions explicitely (don't use the global UNICODE define). Also see: http://utf8everywhere.org/ http://utf8everywhere.org/
- rurban 8y ago
  Nope, big mistake. You cannot just search for "Café" in "Café", as there are multiple representations for the same character. Think of Cyrillic vs Greek, Han vs Hangul. The popular garbage-in, garbage-out doesn't apply to unicode identifiers. That's why the Mac filesystem normalization was correct, and the unix filesystems are all broken. If it's not identifiable it's no identifier. That's why java and cperl are the only languages with proper and safe unicode support. Python 3 is a bit better than Python 2, Perl6 better than Perl5 and the rest, but still don't apply unicode security guidelines for identifiers. It's much better for browsers and email clients. And with case-insensitivity it gets worse, as there are some locale dependent additional rules, for Turkish and Lithuania. And this depends on "some" global settings. http://perl11.org/blog/foldcase.html http://perl11.org/blog/foldcase.html
  - iforgotpassword 8y ago
    Japanese is also great. While there are general rules when you use hiragana vs. katakana, sometimes for stylistic reasons the "wrong" one is used, or some kanji is "spelled out" as hiragana, and depending on context, you might or might not want to include these in your search results. Tbh I just stopped caring and now happily live in my little world where utf8 is the solution to everything, doesn't yield any problems ever, and anyone telling me differently gets completely ignored.