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Your last paragraph strongly suggests to me that you were rightly rejected. Here's the last paragraph: Anyway... it'd be a shame to throw so much work away, s

Your last paragraph strongly suggests to me that you were rightly rejected. Here's the last paragraph: Anyway... it'd be a shame to throw so much work away, so we'll probably work on it a bit more, then release it as a side project or something. At least have a decent project to put on future resumes or whatever. Translation: "Because one VC firm rejected us, I...suppose...I can still use the incipient startup as resume filler. Or whatever"" That's a loser attitude if there ever was one, and I'm going to guess that VCs look for it.

ericb 19y ago
You make a good point, but maybe the name calling was a little over-much?
- mynameishere 19y ago
  "Loser attitude"? Oh, well. My suggestion is: He should continue serious work on his business, and if I throw in an insult with that advice, too bad.
  - davidw 19y ago
    Here's a way to avoid those slips: read the comment out loud and pretend you were talking to the person directly, with a straight face (since you're actually typing it, you don't get to say it with a smile and a laugh).
    - deleted 19y ago
      [deleted]
nostrademons 19y ago
"That's a loser attitude if there ever was one, and I'm going to guess that VCs look for it." I'd imagine VCs look for it too, but it's important to remember that what people say and what they do often have no correlation, and it works both ways. There're some folks that are all "rah, rah, we're going to take over the world" and then they crumble at the first difficulty. Then there are others that are "well, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't, but if it doesn't it'll look great on a resume, so I think I might give it a try, at least for now", then they keep at it for 8 years and exit for millions of dollars. I'm reminded of James Hong's "Happiness = Reality - Expectations, so I do my best to keep expectations low" post. Everybody chided him for being so blase and said that if he expected to fail, of course he would. But if you look at what James has actually done, it's clear that he hasn't failed, he just keeps his expectations low as a trick to stay motivated.
- wheels 19y ago
  There's a funny disconnect that you can pull off though that I find quite useful. You can still be determined that you're going to take over the world without actually expecting it. It doesn't make much logical sense, but it's a pretty convenient way to approach things. From what I can tell this mindset is pretty prevant in i.e. sports teams.
webwright 19y ago
I'd also guess that VCs look for leaders who can give constructive feedback without pissing on (or pissing off) the recipient.
- tptacek 19y ago
  Yes, and also healthy teeth and shirts made out of sustainable fibers.
martythemaniak 19y ago
What you call a "loser attitude" is what I'd call being realistic. A lot of people get a little too caught up in the hype and hubris associated with startups, but its important to look at issues from both the positive and negative sides. For example, you can take a rejection from YC and say "Gee, we got this far, there's something to this idea, we should definitely keep working on it" and you'd be right. But you can also say "Gee, we couldn't get into with YC their (relatively) lower standards, how are we ever gonna impress an Angel/VC?" and you'll also be correct. So I'm just trying to be honest here. YC would have provided a great vote of confidence needed to put in a monumental effort into this (ie, quit jobs, take huge financial risk etc). Now we'll keep working on it and put it out, and maybe that vote of confidence will come in the form of enough users and growth to convince us to really get into this. Or maybe we've been wrong all along, all the criticisms correct and the thing will fizzle out. But mindless hyperbole of the "we'll keep going no matter what and change the world" does little but stroke your ego, which I personally hate.
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  "But you can also say "Gee, we couldn't get into with YC their (relatively) lower standards, how are we ever gonna impress an Angel/VC?" and you'll also be correct." I would argue that YC standards are, and can be, higher. They see a lot more companies each year than most VCs. They can't see as much of the potential of the founders because it is so early in the process...but they have a lot more to choose from, so they're able to pick the ones that seem about to explode from excitement about their business and seem smart enough and dedicated enough to deliver it. pg has said that investors (including him) invest in businesses that are like a train leaving the station, whether the investor is on-board or not. Investors hate to miss a success, even more than they hate to bet on a failure, so if you aren't convinced of your own success with or without one particular investor, you aren't what they are looking for. It seems to me that you probably weren't convincing on this point.

ericb 19y ago

You make a good point, but maybe the name calling was a little over-much?

mynameishere 19y ago
"Loser attitude"? Oh, well. My suggestion is: He should continue serious work on his business, and if I throw in an insult with that advice, too bad.
- davidw 19y ago
  Here's a way to avoid those slips: read the comment out loud and pretend you were talking to the person directly, with a straight face (since you're actually typing it, you don't get to say it with a smile and a laugh).
  - deleted 19y ago
    [deleted]

nostrademons 19y ago

"That's a loser attitude if there ever was one, and I'm going to guess that VCs look for it." I'd imagine VCs look for it too, but it's important to remember that what people say and what they do often have no correlation, and it works both ways. There're some folks that are all "rah, rah, we're going to take over the world" and then they crumble at the first difficulty. Then there are others that are "well, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't, but if it doesn't it'll look great on a resume, so I think I might give it a try, at least for now", then they keep at it for 8 years and exit for millions of dollars. I'm reminded of James Hong's "Happiness = Reality - Expectations, so I do my best to keep expectations low" post. Everybody chided him for being so blase and said that if he expected to fail, of course he would. But if you look at what James has actually done, it's clear that he hasn't failed, he just keeps his expectations low as a trick to stay motivated.

wheels 19y ago
There's a funny disconnect that you can pull off though that I find quite useful. You can still be determined that you're going to take over the world without actually expecting it. It doesn't make much logical sense, but it's a pretty convenient way to approach things. From what I can tell this mindset is pretty prevant in i.e. sports teams.

webwright 19y ago

I'd also guess that VCs look for leaders who can give constructive feedback without pissing on (or pissing off) the recipient.

tptacek 19y ago
Yes, and also healthy teeth and shirts made out of sustainable fibers.

martythemaniak 19y ago

What you call a "loser attitude" is what I'd call being realistic. A lot of people get a little too caught up in the hype and hubris associated with startups, but its important to look at issues from both the positive and negative sides. For example, you can take a rejection from YC and say "Gee, we got this far, there's something to this idea, we should definitely keep working on it" and you'd be right. But you can also say "Gee, we couldn't get into with YC their (relatively) lower standards, how are we ever gonna impress an Angel/VC?" and you'll also be correct. So I'm just trying to be honest here. YC would have provided a great vote of confidence needed to put in a monumental effort into this (ie, quit jobs, take huge financial risk etc). Now we'll keep working on it and put it out, and maybe that vote of confidence will come in the form of enough users and growth to convince us to really get into this. Or maybe we've been wrong all along, all the criticisms correct and the thing will fizzle out. But mindless hyperbole of the "we'll keep going no matter what and change the world" does little but stroke your ego, which I personally hate.

SwellJoe 19y ago
"But you can also say "Gee, we couldn't get into with YC their (relatively) lower standards, how are we ever gonna impress an Angel/VC?" and you'll also be correct." I would argue that YC standards are, and can be, higher. They see a lot more companies each year than most VCs. They can't see as much of the potential of the founders because it is so early in the process...but they have a lot more to choose from, so they're able to pick the ones that seem about to explode from excitement about their business and seem smart enough and dedicated enough to deliver it. pg has said that investors (including him) invest in businesses that are like a train leaving the station, whether the investor is on-board or not. Investors hate to miss a success, even more than they hate to bet on a failure, so if you aren't convinced of your own success with or without one particular investor, you aren't what they are looking for. It seems to me that you probably weren't convincing on this point.