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Apple is making great money selling consumer products and services. It's time Apple uses some of that money to build better hardware for developers without cons

Apple is making great money selling consumer products and services. It's time Apple uses some of that money to build better hardware for developers without considering immediate profits. We need MacBook Pros that are actually designed for professionals. No touch bar, better keyboard, better CPU and GPU. Consider it an investment on your developers.

andrestan 8y ago
As an alternative, I personally love the keyboard of the 2018 Macbooks and I'm not sure I'm aware of dramatically better CPUs that could be put inside of them? Certainly my new 13" with the upgraded CPU is fantastic. I would like a better GPU, but I can use an external GPU if needed. The disk speed is I think literally unparalleled, the screen is fantastic, the touchpad is the best in class, the T2 chip provides great security... I quite like my upgrade from my early 2015 13".
- apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
  They could focus on cooling, which would enable them to throttle the CPU less often. The recent firmware update helped with the throttling but it still runs extremely hot.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    There is a reason for Apple's position though. Many/most of these MacBook Pros are being used in professional work environments which expect your laptop to be silent. I've been in quite a few meetings with the fans going to 100% and it's incredibly disruptive. So whilst you have options to increase the fan speed the defaults are understandably kept quite conservative.
    - apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
      This is a fair point. At the same time, though, they have very few exits for hot air and could improve passive cooling by making the MBP slightly thicker (gasp!) and adding larger heat sinks. Alternatively, they could add first-party support for fan-profile configuration. The needs of a dev or designer or video editor do not match the needs of an accountant or an executive. The ability to easily switch between profiles to match task would be extremely useful, I think.
    - HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
      A bigger chassis with a bigger/twin heatpipe and bigger holes to vent the heat from are completely silent ways to increase cooling performance. In fact they could even be utilized to make the fans even more silent depending on the workload.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      Fair point. I've been in a conference room where I had a video going on my 2013 MBP with headphones in and the guy next to me asked me to stop whatever was running my fans so hard. Those things can get loud.
  - andrestan 8y ago
    This is fair. I don't have a ton of heat issues but they could allow me to easily bump fan speed earlier on in the process of heating up. Would be a welcome addition.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    I used to put two drug store ice backs underneath my 17" MBP so I could use it without the heat turning my legs red through my pants. I don't think today's MBP's run quite that hot.
    - apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
      The most recent MBPs were being throttled after mere seconds of 100% CPU due to the poor heat management and poor fan profiles; Linus Tech Tips was able to go from sealed box to throttled CPU in under 20 minutes without even trying. A firmware update to address the fan profile issue improved this but it still has issues. The MBPs were not really designed to handle the heat of an i9
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        > A firmware update to address the fan profile issue improved this but it still has issues. I was under the impression that the firmware update essentially fixed the thermal issues?
lev99 8y ago
I've never heard anyone complain about the MBP cpus. What is yours?
- codelord 8y ago
  You can get a decent CPU for MacBook Pro but they charge you an arm and a leg. The same with storage. A fully loaded MBP costs $6,699. $3000 too much. I even would have been okey with the price if it wasn't for the touchbar. The touchbar just makes me want to break my laptop in half everytime I try to use an editor like vim that requires pressing escape. Overall my main problem is that Apple is trying to make MBP a mainstream consumer product. It should be for the developers. Just leave this one be for the developers.
  - gbear605 8y ago
    Yeah, but drop the 4TB hard drive for a 1TB hard drive, and you're down to $3,899.00, which is just about what you asked for - $2,800 less. That $3000 is just for the insanely large hard drive and, from what I've read, that price increase just about matches up with the rest of the market.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      And the prices on the SSD don't just get you an off-the-shelf Samsung SSD from Amazon, we're talking the fastest SSDs on the market by an absolutely massive margin. https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/2018-macbook-pro-benchmarks https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/2018-macbook-pro-benchmar...
      - kart23 8y ago
        They aren't that fast. The 970 evo nvme drives have comparable speeds.
        creddit 8y ago
        Which aren't in laptops anywhere so it's pretty irrelevant in this instance. It's also the case that the T2 chip is running real time encryption/decryption on reads and writes.
threeseed 8y ago
I am a developer and I really love the new MacBook Pro. The CPU is now on par with the rest of the industry, keyboard issues largely resolved and the TouchBar is incredibly useful for developers. Look at the recent update from IntelliJ to see some of the future potential. Contextual buttons that completely change depending on what is selected is something nobody could ever remember with Fn keys e.g. refactoring specific buttons when a method is highlighted.
- nategri 8y ago
  > I am a developer and I really love the new MacBook Pro. I'm guessing you don't use vim.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    All the cool kids rebind capslock to control and then use Karabiner to set tapping control on its own as escape
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Hundred times a day. The escape key is still there in the same position it's always been. The rest of the TouchBar changes depending on context but the escape key remains fixed. So just like how I don't mind having soft-keys on my iPhone I don't mind it on my MacBook.
  - hatsubai 8y ago
    Being a Linux kernel and OS developer for a defense company, vim has been my main editor for quite awhile, and I have no issues with the touch bar on my new 2018 MBP. For those that require the tactile feel, there's always remapping caps lock, as well as utilizing other key combos: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key If muscle memory is that engrained within the user that he or she cannot utilize any of the aforementioned alternatives, nor adapt to the difference in feel of the touch bar, then your choices are either an older iteration of the hardware, or switch completely. Claiming that, "you don't use vim," if you enjoy the new MBPs is, however, off the mark, IMO.
  - 8y ago
mullingitover 8y ago
They should license the OS to Sony and Lenovo, or just wholesale license it to everyone. Give me Mac OS VMs that we can do our iOS builds on without it being a pain.

andrestan 8y ago

As an alternative, I personally love the keyboard of the 2018 Macbooks and I'm not sure I'm aware of dramatically better CPUs that could be put inside of them? Certainly my new 13" with the upgraded CPU is fantastic. I would like a better GPU, but I can use an external GPU if needed. The disk speed is I think literally unparalleled, the screen is fantastic, the touchpad is the best in class, the T2 chip provides great security... I quite like my upgrade from my early 2015 13".

apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
They could focus on cooling, which would enable them to throttle the CPU less often. The recent firmware update helped with the throttling but it still runs extremely hot.
- threeseed 8y ago
  There is a reason for Apple's position though. Many/most of these MacBook Pros are being used in professional work environments which expect your laptop to be silent. I've been in quite a few meetings with the fans going to 100% and it's incredibly disruptive. So whilst you have options to increase the fan speed the defaults are understandably kept quite conservative.
  - apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
    This is a fair point. At the same time, though, they have very few exits for hot air and could improve passive cooling by making the MBP slightly thicker (gasp!) and adding larger heat sinks. Alternatively, they could add first-party support for fan-profile configuration. The needs of a dev or designer or video editor do not match the needs of an accountant or an executive. The ability to easily switch between profiles to match task would be extremely useful, I think.
  - HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
    A bigger chassis with a bigger/twin heatpipe and bigger holes to vent the heat from are completely silent ways to increase cooling performance. In fact they could even be utilized to make the fans even more silent depending on the workload.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    Fair point. I've been in a conference room where I had a video going on my 2013 MBP with headphones in and the guy next to me asked me to stop whatever was running my fans so hard. Those things can get loud.
- andrestan 8y ago
  This is fair. I don't have a ton of heat issues but they could allow me to easily bump fan speed earlier on in the process of heating up. Would be a welcome addition.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  I used to put two drug store ice backs underneath my 17" MBP so I could use it without the heat turning my legs red through my pants. I don't think today's MBP's run quite that hot.
  - apocalyptic0n3 8y ago
    The most recent MBPs were being throttled after mere seconds of 100% CPU due to the poor heat management and poor fan profiles; Linus Tech Tips was able to go from sealed box to throttled CPU in under 20 minutes without even trying. A firmware update to address the fan profile issue improved this but it still has issues. The MBPs were not really designed to handle the heat of an i9
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      > A firmware update to address the fan profile issue improved this but it still has issues. I was under the impression that the firmware update essentially fixed the thermal issues?

lev99 8y ago

I've never heard anyone complain about the MBP cpus. What is yours?

codelord 8y ago
You can get a decent CPU for MacBook Pro but they charge you an arm and a leg. The same with storage. A fully loaded MBP costs $6,699. $3000 too much. I even would have been okey with the price if it wasn't for the touchbar. The touchbar just makes me want to break my laptop in half everytime I try to use an editor like vim that requires pressing escape. Overall my main problem is that Apple is trying to make MBP a mainstream consumer product. It should be for the developers. Just leave this one be for the developers.
- gbear605 8y ago
  Yeah, but drop the 4TB hard drive for a 1TB hard drive, and you're down to $3,899.00, which is just about what you asked for - $2,800 less. That $3000 is just for the insanely large hard drive and, from what I've read, that price increase just about matches up with the rest of the market.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    And the prices on the SSD don't just get you an off-the-shelf Samsung SSD from Amazon, we're talking the fastest SSDs on the market by an absolutely massive margin. https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/2018-macbook-pro-benchmarks https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/2018-macbook-pro-benchmar...
    - kart23 8y ago
      They aren't that fast. The 970 evo nvme drives have comparable speeds.
      - creddit 8y ago
        Which aren't in laptops anywhere so it's pretty irrelevant in this instance. It's also the case that the T2 chip is running real time encryption/decryption on reads and writes.

threeseed 8y ago

I am a developer and I really love the new MacBook Pro. The CPU is now on par with the rest of the industry, keyboard issues largely resolved and the TouchBar is incredibly useful for developers. Look at the recent update from IntelliJ to see some of the future potential. Contextual buttons that completely change depending on what is selected is something nobody could ever remember with Fn keys e.g. refactoring specific buttons when a method is highlighted.

nategri 8y ago
> I am a developer and I really love the new MacBook Pro. I'm guessing you don't use vim.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  All the cool kids rebind capslock to control and then use Karabiner to set tapping control on its own as escape
- threeseed 8y ago
  Hundred times a day. The escape key is still there in the same position it's always been. The rest of the TouchBar changes depending on context but the escape key remains fixed. So just like how I don't mind having soft-keys on my iPhone I don't mind it on my MacBook.
- hatsubai 8y ago
  Being a Linux kernel and OS developer for a defense company, vim has been my main editor for quite awhile, and I have no issues with the touch bar on my new 2018 MBP. For those that require the tactile feel, there's always remapping caps lock, as well as utilizing other key combos: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key If muscle memory is that engrained within the user that he or she cannot utilize any of the aforementioned alternatives, nor adapt to the difference in feel of the touch bar, then your choices are either an older iteration of the hardware, or switch completely. Claiming that, "you don't use vim," if you enjoy the new MBPs is, however, off the mark, IMO.
- 8y ago

mullingitover 8y ago

They should license the OS to Sony and Lenovo, or just wholesale license it to everyone. Give me Mac OS VMs that we can do our iOS builds on without it being a pain.