4 ms·

Have you ever seen this discussed outside of HN or dev-centric subreddits? Your average user doesn't care about this 'issue' at all, and thats why it won't ever

by soared 8y ago

Have you ever seen this discussed outside of HN or dev-centric subreddits? Your average user doesn't care about this 'issue' at all, and thats why it won't ever change. Proof the author doesn't relate to any typical user: > I’m not asking much of it; I have opened a text-based document on the web Nobody besides devs would open a website and think "Oh this a text-based document opened in a web browser". Its a website, not a word doc.

agumonkey 8y ago
Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. ps: you all must understand that the average user believe in tech, if the web is slow, it can't be google's fault; if the salesman spread that 'of course you need a machine that is web capable' all they'll care is that it's not too expensive and they'll buy the damn machine, and maybe throw the old one out. source: my recycling bin.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Wish this would be pinned on top of all such discussions. This is precisely what's happening. In the mind of regular user, the web looks like it's supposed to, because they don't have enough technical knowledge to correctly understand what's happening. Users accept what they get, because they don't understand it. And as you said here, the complaints get targeted at the wrong thing. "Why is my computer so slow? Did I get a virus?". No, it's just that Google just deployed even more bloated iteration of their GMail UI, CNN just added 20 more tracking scripts, and YouTube is now eating half of your RAM for no good reason. I get through this dance with many of my non-technical family members and acquaintances. I can extend the life of their machines only so much with ad-blockers and cleaning out adware. Ultimately, they'll buy a new, faster machine, just to return to the status quo. And maybe I'll inherit one of their "slow" laptops and pull out 2+ more years of professional, productive use from it.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    It's hard to educate people too. You have to go hard and deep to convince them enough not to spend money on their next mall trip.
- wott 8y ago
  > Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. This evening there was that broadcast on our national radio about "white zones", I don't know if you listened to it. The 3 guests were directors in major telecommunication organisations and administrations of the country. They discussed how high-speed Internet should be available to everyone everywhere, and they declared that there should be fibre-to-home everywhere in the country. But in 30 or 40 minutes of broadcast I think that they did not ask themselves once: why should everyone have access to optical fibre? does everyone need it? what for? can we define what real problems and needs are? can we define a set of stuff that really matter? why do we even need a high-speed access to read and fill administrative paperwork (without paper)? what can be done to achieve the same functions with low- or medium-speed Internet for everyone, by not wasting ressources? I mean, it is crazy to be about to pour billions in something because... just because. Without a deep analysis of what is wanted and how to solve it. They have decided on a solution, but they have not defined the problem. They pretend to solve the case of a few people who are supposedly in trouble because they cannot fill important forms, but the real use will be that Jean-Pierre-Kevin and Rayanne will watch the same American blockbuster, each one on his own tablet or smartphone, but Rayanne will start watching it 10 minutes later, killing the global bandwidth because "eh! it's free". At my place, the Internet speed was upgraded (I don't think anyone asked for it?), as a result people started using TV-over-xDSL, VOD and streaming like pigs, and now in the evenings the speed is worse than it used to be before the upgrade... One must question the usage that is done with the infrastructure before spending billions building it, because the general consequence is a never ending abuse of the available infrastructure, whichever capacity it has. (For Agu: <https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/le-telephone-sonne/le-telephone-sonne-31-juillet-2018> https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/le-telephone-sonne/le-t...)
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    That sarcastic example you're giving is most likely to be true. I had heated arguments on reddit with people (most likely gamers) being very tense about my dismissal of the need for FTTH. And the telecom companies are just in it for the new market, they couldn't care less about anything else. xDSL was also meant to be high speed for everybody, and it's not the case. And sadly, as long as there's a market, there will be products. Oh, and I don't know about you, but ISP are quite aggressive with FTTH these days. I see lots of tech upgrading links, and get more texts about new offers than I ever got .. that's a strong hint :) I often want to assemble low bandwidth low power (solar powered even) router nodes. Something you could drop in a field and have a mile radius range of wifi (some people on youtube got more than that with a tiny esp8266 IC). The rest would be some mesh network topology. Just enough for simple data, emergency, maybe compressed voice you know. Thanks for the radio link.
theyinwhy 8y ago
Every person I know is using an ad blocker so I guess they do care. And yes, publishers care as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/05/27/newspapers-escalate-their-fight-against-ad-blockers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/05/27...
- soared 8y ago
  True - Pubs care because they lose revenue, user use adblock to block ads. I don't know anyone who uses an adblocker to improve load speeds.
  - theyinwhy 8y ago
    It is a very convenient side effect and yes, users care a lot about load times as well, as multiple case studies show, eg. https://developer.akamai.com/blog/2015/09/01/mobile-web-performance-monitoring-conversion-rate https://developer.akamai.com/blog/2015/09/01/mobile-web-perf... The reason users care is the reason people hop on amp.
j2kun 8y ago
They don't discuss it because they just give up if it takes too long.

by soared 8y ago

agumonkey 8y ago

Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. ps: you all must understand that the average user believe in tech, if the web is slow, it can't be google's fault; if the salesman spread that 'of course you need a machine that is web capable' all they'll care is that it's not too expensive and they'll buy the damn machine, and maybe throw the old one out. source: my recycling bin.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Wish this would be pinned on top of all such discussions. This is precisely what's happening. In the mind of regular user, the web looks like it's supposed to, because they don't have enough technical knowledge to correctly understand what's happening. Users accept what they get, because they don't understand it. And as you said here, the complaints get targeted at the wrong thing. "Why is my computer so slow? Did I get a virus?". No, it's just that Google just deployed even more bloated iteration of their GMail UI, CNN just added 20 more tracking scripts, and YouTube is now eating half of your RAM for no good reason. I get through this dance with many of my non-technical family members and acquaintances. I can extend the life of their machines only so much with ad-blockers and cleaning out adware. Ultimately, they'll buy a new, faster machine, just to return to the status quo. And maybe I'll inherit one of their "slow" laptops and pull out 2+ more years of professional, productive use from it.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  It's hard to educate people too. You have to go hard and deep to convince them enough not to spend money on their next mall trip.
wott 8y ago
> Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. This evening there was that broadcast on our national radio about "white zones", I don't know if you listened to it. The 3 guests were directors in major telecommunication organisations and administrations of the country. They discussed how high-speed Internet should be available to everyone everywhere, and they declared that there should be fibre-to-home everywhere in the country. But in 30 or 40 minutes of broadcast I think that they did not ask themselves once: why should everyone have access to optical fibre? does everyone need it? what for? can we define what real problems and needs are? can we define a set of stuff that really matter? why do we even need a high-speed access to read and fill administrative paperwork (without paper)? what can be done to achieve the same functions with low- or medium-speed Internet for everyone, by not wasting ressources? I mean, it is crazy to be about to pour billions in something because... just because. Without a deep analysis of what is wanted and how to solve it. They have decided on a solution, but they have not defined the problem. They pretend to solve the case of a few people who are supposedly in trouble because they cannot fill important forms, but the real use will be that Jean-Pierre-Kevin and Rayanne will watch the same American blockbuster, each one on his own tablet or smartphone, but Rayanne will start watching it 10 minutes later, killing the global bandwidth because "eh! it's free". At my place, the Internet speed was upgraded (I don't think anyone asked for it?), as a result people started using TV-over-xDSL, VOD and streaming like pigs, and now in the evenings the speed is worse than it used to be before the upgrade... One must question the usage that is done with the infrastructure before spending billions building it, because the general consequence is a never ending abuse of the available infrastructure, whichever capacity it has. (For Agu: <https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/le-telephone-sonne/le-telephone-sonne-31-juillet-2018> https://www.franceinter.fr/emissions/le-telephone-sonne/le-t...)
- agumonkey 8y ago
  That sarcastic example you're giving is most likely to be true. I had heated arguments on reddit with people (most likely gamers) being very tense about my dismissal of the need for FTTH. And the telecom companies are just in it for the new market, they couldn't care less about anything else. xDSL was also meant to be high speed for everybody, and it's not the case. And sadly, as long as there's a market, there will be products. Oh, and I don't know about you, but ISP are quite aggressive with FTTH these days. I see lots of tech upgrading links, and get more texts about new offers than I ever got .. that's a strong hint :) I often want to assemble low bandwidth low power (solar powered even) router nodes. Something you could drop in a field and have a mile radius range of wifi (some people on youtube got more than that with a tiny esp8266 IC). The rest would be some mesh network topology. Just enough for simple data, emergency, maybe compressed voice you know. Thanks for the radio link.

theyinwhy 8y ago

Every person I know is using an ad blocker so I guess they do care. And yes, publishers care as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/05/27/newspapers-escalate-their-fight-against-ad-blockers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/05/27...

soared 8y ago
True - Pubs care because they lose revenue, user use adblock to block ads. I don't know anyone who uses an adblocker to improve load speeds.
- theyinwhy 8y ago
  It is a very convenient side effect and yes, users care a lot about load times as well, as multiple case studies show, eg. https://developer.akamai.com/blog/2015/09/01/mobile-web-performance-monitoring-conversion-rate https://developer.akamai.com/blog/2015/09/01/mobile-web-perf... The reason users care is the reason people hop on amp.

j2kun 8y ago

They don't discuss it because they just give up if it takes too long.