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The Russians also ran the #NotMyPresident campaign after Trump was elected. The Russians trolls do not care who is in office they just want to cause mayham.

by vuln 8y ago

skrebbel 8y ago
I'm nitpicking here, but I dislike that commenters and media alike so liberally use "The Russians" for this. It's the Russian government and their benefactors. There are 150 million Russians and, like anywhere, they're by and large good people with good intentions. Let's not blame an entire people for their government's decisions. Eg if I would blame "the Americans" for the CIA torture program, I'f rightfully get backlash here.
- vuln 8y ago
  I apologise. I completely agree with you.
  - skrebbel 8y ago
    BTW I didn't mean to single you out. You weren't doing anything out of the ordinary :-)
- gfodor 8y ago
  Also, "The Russians" narrative contributes to the idea that there is singular state actor doing this. I'd wager that they're not even the most sophisticated one.
  - empressplay 8y ago
    It's always safest to assume that every state actor is doing whatever it can (get away with) to advance their interests.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > There are 150 million Russians and, like anywhere, they're by and large good people with good intentions I'm not sure I'd let them off the hook so easily. They elected Putin and, if independent polling is to be believed, seem to still support him. This doesn't make them complicit in his ever crime. But it does remove their total independence.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > They elected Putin and, if independent polling is to be believed, seem to still support him. Independent polling showing strong support for the existing leadership in a country that has a long history with (perhaps) brief interruptions of being a heavily monitored authoritarian state with both overt and covert reprisals, not infrequently including fatal ones, against dissidents cannot be trusted for reasons which ought to be obvious. Which is not to say Putin doesn't have strong support, just that polling can't be relied on to assess that.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > Which is not to say Putin doesn't have strong support, just that polling can't be relied on to assess that Reputable firms try to correct for the biases you mention [1]. We have more evidence for the claim that Putin is domestically supported than otherwise. Which makes sense, given he's stabilized and relatively-competently managed their economy [2]. (Cf: Oil prices are up.) [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-perspective/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-... [2] http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/what-is-the-source-of-putin-s-domestic-support http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/what-is-the-...
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Reputable firms try to correct for the biases you mention The problem with that is you hve to measure how those biases change; even if you somehow of a good baseline adjustments, when you get new better numbers is it the regime being more popular or people being more afraid that criticism of the regime will be detected and punished? Also, the survey you link doesn't actually describe any method of correcting for biases; implicitly, I suppose you could say that the art of options (some vs. a lot of confidence) and how they are treated (only “a lot” really treated as a positive signal) is a weak effort to mitigate the of bias at issue.

The Russians also ran the #NotMyPresident campaign after Trump was elected. The Russians trolls do not care who is in office they just want to cause mayham.

by vuln 8y ago

The Russians also ran the #NotMyPresident campaign after Trump was elected. The Russians trolls do not care who is in office they just want to cause mayham.

skrebbel 8y ago

I'm nitpicking here, but I dislike that commenters and media alike so liberally use "The Russians" for this. It's the Russian government and their benefactors. There are 150 million Russians and, like anywhere, they're by and large good people with good intentions. Let's not blame an entire people for their government's decisions. Eg if I would blame "the Americans" for the CIA torture program, I'f rightfully get backlash here.

vuln 8y ago
I apologise. I completely agree with you.
- skrebbel 8y ago
  BTW I didn't mean to single you out. You weren't doing anything out of the ordinary :-)
gfodor 8y ago
Also, "The Russians" narrative contributes to the idea that there is singular state actor doing this. I'd wager that they're not even the most sophisticated one.
- empressplay 8y ago
  It's always safest to assume that every state actor is doing whatever it can (get away with) to advance their interests.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> There are 150 million Russians and, like anywhere, they're by and large good people with good intentions I'm not sure I'd let them off the hook so easily. They elected Putin and, if independent polling is to be believed, seem to still support him. This doesn't make them complicit in his ever crime. But it does remove their total independence.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > They elected Putin and, if independent polling is to be believed, seem to still support him. Independent polling showing strong support for the existing leadership in a country that has a long history with (perhaps) brief interruptions of being a heavily monitored authoritarian state with both overt and covert reprisals, not infrequently including fatal ones, against dissidents cannot be trusted for reasons which ought to be obvious. Which is not to say Putin doesn't have strong support, just that polling can't be relied on to assess that.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > Which is not to say Putin doesn't have strong support, just that polling can't be relied on to assess that Reputable firms try to correct for the biases you mention [1]. We have more evidence for the claim that Putin is domestically supported than otherwise. Which makes sense, given he's stabilized and relatively-competently managed their economy [2]. (Cf: Oil prices are up.) [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-perspective/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/20/president-putin-russian-... [2] http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/what-is-the-source-of-putin-s-domestic-support http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/what-is-the-...
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Reputable firms try to correct for the biases you mention The problem with that is you hve to measure how those biases change; even if you somehow of a good baseline adjustments, when you get new better numbers is it the regime being more popular or people being more afraid that criticism of the regime will be detected and punished? Also, the survey you link doesn't actually describe any method of correcting for biases; implicitly, I suppose you could say that the art of options (some vs. a lot of confidence) and how they are treated (only “a lot” really treated as a positive signal) is a weak effort to mitigate the of bias at issue.