6 ms·

The case of vb.ly: NIC.ly was right to shut them down

17 points by aditya 16y ago

tonystubblebine 16y ago
So glad you posted this. Something about the original story just seemed fishy.
- irons 16y ago
  Could you explain what about this explanation you find the least bit reassuring?
  - tonystubblebine 16y ago
    The NIC.ly statement shows a clear understanding of user generated content. VB was shut down because it's purpose is expressly against the TOS. Bit.ly is safe because it's purpose is clearly not. Also, I've heard other cases of VB trolling for publicity and assumed that they weren't giving a complete explanation. For example, the initial reports from VB focused on the arbitrary nature of the decision, which I think is contradicted by NIC.ly contacting them beforehand.
    - dotBen 16y ago
      The NIC.ly statement shows a clear understanding of user generated content. Can you help me out with that - cos I received the statement personally (I was a co-owner) and I'm not at all clear how this doesn't preclude user generated content. Perhaps you'd like to highlight your other issues with what has happened here. If you think we're "trolling" for interest then consider the extent and fallout of what has happened from this - Mitt Romney has removed his Mitt.ly shortener, this has been picked up by major news - we're not the only ones that are highly concerned. Feel free to ask me here whatever you like about the situation here
      - tonystubblebine 16y ago
        I lost a lot of respect for Violet Blue in the dust up with Boing Boing. http://boingboing.net/2008/07/01/that-violet-blue-thi.html http://boingboing.net/2008/07/01/that-violet-blue-thi.html I don't see how Mitt's decision is evidence. It could just as easily mean that you've successfully created a scare story that was big enough to scare his tech team. If there's a history here that doesn't involve you guys, I'd like to know it. But your involvement doesn't carry any credibility with me.
        dotBen 16y ago
        well, you've just slighted both Violet and kinda myself without any real substance or explanation - it comes across bit troll-ish to be honest. It's a shame cos I quite like the Crowdvine product and being in that space I'd have thought you'd be more considerate of constructive + meaningful contribution to community discussion. If you have something to add or ask on this original topic, vb.ly, I'm happy to participate and respond.
    - irons 16y ago
      The subsequent clarification that the proximate cause of the takedown was a photo of "a scantily clad lady with a bottle in her hand" seems to undermine your certainty that any particular .ly business model is safe. http://www.flickr.com/photos/violetblue/3838601847/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/violetblue/3838601847/ http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010/10/libya-beginning-to-police-ly-domains-for-morality.ars http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010/10/libya-beginning-to-p...
tptacek 16y ago
It bugs me to see people using logic to predict how Libya will handle its registrar. I have zero sympathy for vb.ly, but, for what it's worth, I'm going to have zero sympathy for bit.ly if Libya shakes them down too. You're dealing with a company that has no rule of law. Caveat emptor.
- AndrewDucker 16y ago
  Of course they have rule of law - _Libyan_ law.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    Libyan law is whatever the ruling party says it is this instant.
    - cottsak 16y ago
      As with many Islam/Muslim nations (not racism. a fact. i lived there).
      - swombat 16y ago
        And the point is, that doesn't qualify as "rule of law". "Rule of law" means, very specifically, that everyone is equal before the law. This is only possible when the law is somewhat fixed, explicit, and intelligible to the people affected. What they have there is more like Roman law - i.e. everyone is subject to the law unless the leader decides otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law
      - mcknz 16y ago
        see Blackberry/UAE.
sv123 16y ago
So is it a porn site or is it a url shortener? I'm confused.
- swombat 16y ago
  My understanding is, it's a url shortener that predominantly links to erotically charged destinations.
- dotBen 16y ago
  I bet bit.ly points to more 'adult' urls than our vb.ly service did. Also, vb.ly was not solely for adult themed sites, we simply stated we are 'sex positive' which has a wider, different meaning.
wccrawford 16y ago
I never doubted that NIC.ly was perfectly within their rights to shut down vb.ly. The concern is that they are also perfectly within their rights to shut down -any- other domain as well. Currently, they -say- they only shut this one down because it promoted itself as 'adult friendly'. (Not 'sex friendly', just 'adult friendly', which in the end probably means the same.) How do we know that they won't suddenly decide that bit.ly is 'adult friendly' also? Or that failing to prevent sex sites is enough for dismissal? They could change their terms at any time to say anything they want, too. There's no stopping that. Sites like bit.ly are -built- around the domain name. To change it is to destroy the business. The previous blog posts have been correct in their concerns. It's something that needs to be considered when choosing a domain name.
- xelipe 16y ago
  I hate to say this, but this is true of any service. Facebook, Google, Twitter is within their right to change their respective term of service at any time, to enforce those terms of service at any time, and to even revoke the usage of a service to a user. I find that this would be specially true when the doing business with a foreign based company. Another problem I have not seen anyone bring up, and the main reason I never bought fugg.ly, is Libya's Axis of Evil status. The United States can can potentially put an embargo restricting ownership to .ly domains.
nowarninglabel 16y ago
Don't register a domain in a country whose law and regulations you don't want to follow. Country-specific domains were meant for exactly that, country-specific sites. Did they think there was no risk to doing business in a foreign country?
- dotBen 16y ago
  I am happy to follow the rules and regulations. Would you care to point out Libyan Law to me where I can read it? (I bet you cant)
  - nowarninglabel 16y ago
    I don't need to, that is why I added regulations. Is there a law that says the U.S. can detain an 'unlawful combatant' indefinitely? No. Did it happen? Yes. Doing business in a foreign country brings inherent risk. If you want to ignore risk because you don't see it written down on a piece of paper, then you won't make it far.
    - dotBen 16y ago
      Um, my point was that the .ly domain regulations include that you must follow Libyan law, so technically even the domain regulations are not explicitly stated because Libyan law seems hard to track down.

17 points by aditya 16y ago

tonystubblebine 16y ago

So glad you posted this. Something about the original story just seemed fishy.

irons 16y ago
Could you explain what about this explanation you find the least bit reassuring?
- tonystubblebine 16y ago
  The NIC.ly statement shows a clear understanding of user generated content. VB was shut down because it's purpose is expressly against the TOS. Bit.ly is safe because it's purpose is clearly not. Also, I've heard other cases of VB trolling for publicity and assumed that they weren't giving a complete explanation. For example, the initial reports from VB focused on the arbitrary nature of the decision, which I think is contradicted by NIC.ly contacting them beforehand.
  - dotBen 16y ago
    The NIC.ly statement shows a clear understanding of user generated content. Can you help me out with that - cos I received the statement personally (I was a co-owner) and I'm not at all clear how this doesn't preclude user generated content. Perhaps you'd like to highlight your other issues with what has happened here. If you think we're "trolling" for interest then consider the extent and fallout of what has happened from this - Mitt Romney has removed his Mitt.ly shortener, this has been picked up by major news - we're not the only ones that are highly concerned. Feel free to ask me here whatever you like about the situation here
    - tonystubblebine 16y ago
      I lost a lot of respect for Violet Blue in the dust up with Boing Boing. http://boingboing.net/2008/07/01/that-violet-blue-thi.html http://boingboing.net/2008/07/01/that-violet-blue-thi.html I don't see how Mitt's decision is evidence. It could just as easily mean that you've successfully created a scare story that was big enough to scare his tech team. If there's a history here that doesn't involve you guys, I'd like to know it. But your involvement doesn't carry any credibility with me.
      - dotBen 16y ago
        well, you've just slighted both Violet and kinda myself without any real substance or explanation - it comes across bit troll-ish to be honest. It's a shame cos I quite like the Crowdvine product and being in that space I'd have thought you'd be more considerate of constructive + meaningful contribution to community discussion. If you have something to add or ask on this original topic, vb.ly, I'm happy to participate and respond.
  - irons 16y ago
    The subsequent clarification that the proximate cause of the takedown was a photo of "a scantily clad lady with a bottle in her hand" seems to undermine your certainty that any particular .ly business model is safe. http://www.flickr.com/photos/violetblue/3838601847/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/violetblue/3838601847/ http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010/10/libya-beginning-to-police-ly-domains-for-morality.ars http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2010/10/libya-beginning-to-p...

tptacek 16y ago

It bugs me to see people using logic to predict how Libya will handle its registrar. I have zero sympathy for vb.ly, but, for what it's worth, I'm going to have zero sympathy for bit.ly if Libya shakes them down too. You're dealing with a company that has no rule of law. Caveat emptor.

AndrewDucker 16y ago
Of course they have rule of law - _Libyan_ law.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Libyan law is whatever the ruling party says it is this instant.
  - cottsak 16y ago
    As with many Islam/Muslim nations (not racism. a fact. i lived there).
    - swombat 16y ago
      And the point is, that doesn't qualify as "rule of law". "Rule of law" means, very specifically, that everyone is equal before the law. This is only possible when the law is somewhat fixed, explicit, and intelligible to the people affected. What they have there is more like Roman law - i.e. everyone is subject to the law unless the leader decides otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law
    - mcknz 16y ago
      see Blackberry/UAE.

sv123 16y ago

So is it a porn site or is it a url shortener? I'm confused.

swombat 16y ago
My understanding is, it's a url shortener that predominantly links to erotically charged destinations.
dotBen 16y ago
I bet bit.ly points to more 'adult' urls than our vb.ly service did. Also, vb.ly was not solely for adult themed sites, we simply stated we are 'sex positive' which has a wider, different meaning.

wccrawford 16y ago

I never doubted that NIC.ly was perfectly within their rights to shut down vb.ly. The concern is that they are also perfectly within their rights to shut down -any- other domain as well. Currently, they -say- they only shut this one down because it promoted itself as 'adult friendly'. (Not 'sex friendly', just 'adult friendly', which in the end probably means the same.) How do we know that they won't suddenly decide that bit.ly is 'adult friendly' also? Or that failing to prevent sex sites is enough for dismissal? They could change their terms at any time to say anything they want, too. There's no stopping that. Sites like bit.ly are -built- around the domain name. To change it is to destroy the business. The previous blog posts have been correct in their concerns. It's something that needs to be considered when choosing a domain name.

xelipe 16y ago
I hate to say this, but this is true of any service. Facebook, Google, Twitter is within their right to change their respective term of service at any time, to enforce those terms of service at any time, and to even revoke the usage of a service to a user. I find that this would be specially true when the doing business with a foreign based company. Another problem I have not seen anyone bring up, and the main reason I never bought fugg.ly, is Libya's Axis of Evil status. The United States can can potentially put an embargo restricting ownership to .ly domains.

nowarninglabel 16y ago

Don't register a domain in a country whose law and regulations you don't want to follow. Country-specific domains were meant for exactly that, country-specific sites. Did they think there was no risk to doing business in a foreign country?

dotBen 16y ago
I am happy to follow the rules and regulations. Would you care to point out Libyan Law to me where I can read it? (I bet you cant)
- nowarninglabel 16y ago
  I don't need to, that is why I added regulations. Is there a law that says the U.S. can detain an 'unlawful combatant' indefinitely? No. Did it happen? Yes. Doing business in a foreign country brings inherent risk. If you want to ignore risk because you don't see it written down on a piece of paper, then you won't make it far.
  - dotBen 16y ago
    Um, my point was that the .ly domain regulations include that you must follow Libyan law, so technically even the domain regulations are not explicitly stated because Libyan law seems hard to track down.