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Can we stop calling the world's largest democracy an empire? Belligerent nation sure but it's so click baity and inaccurate

megaman22 8y ago
Democracy and empire are not mutually exclusive. Not that the US is a democracy, exactly, but regardless, Athens, Rome, Britain, were all flavors of democratic when they expanded into imperial activity.
eznoonze 8y ago
USA is not the world's largest democracy. That title goes to India.
- Areading314 8y ago
  By economy, not headcount
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - eznoonze 8y ago
    Then it should say "world's largest economy", not "world's largest democracy".
  - pyrale 8y ago
    If we're going to pick arbitrary metrics to fit our world views, the world 's largest democracy is France [1]. [1] Measured in quality of cheese and wine [2]. [2] Suck it, Italy.
- ataturk 8y ago
  The US isn't even a democracy, it's a federated republic. Lately I think it's just a plutocracy. We vote quasi-democratically, but really the two party system is a one party system that protects high level interests and prefers corporations over individuals these days. It's an ugly mess that nobody really wants to see reformed.
- TomMckenny 8y ago
  Pre-Modi India anyway.
wazoox 8y ago
The US being a democracy is largely open for debate: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say...
elbasti 8y ago
Well, to be technical the US does have colonies and territories--the largest of which is Puerto Rico, whose residents have no vote in US elections. There are a number of other small colonies with varying degrees of independence and representation (Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands). And of course the US almost in it's entirety owes its size and natural resources to very real "empire building" in the 19th and 20th centuries. Admittedly the territorial expansion of the US has slowed/stopped in the past 100-200 years, but it's not hard to understand how for someone belonging to a group that lived in a given place for many, many multiples of that duration, the current situation might feel, even today, like occupation. (see: hawaii sovereignty movement, native american reservations) I suppose the question is "when does an empire stop being an empire?" Is it the day it stops expanding? 100 years later? When nobody remembers how things were "before"? I think it's an interesting question.
Symmetry 8y ago
Being a democracy or not doesn't really have anything to do with being an empire, generally you have an empire when you have a state substantially composed of multiple nations. But generally with imperial democracies its only one nation that is a democracy, like in the British Empire where Britain, a democracy, ruled a huge colonial empire. If you really squint hard you could argue that the rest of NATO are military tribute states giving soldiers to the US empire but that's a very strained interpretation. Japan is currently pretty dependent on US military protection but that doesn't seem to have turned into economic exploitation. Certainly American efforts to get Japan to open up to more US exports isn't something Japan has just rolled over on. But the current international system does have the US at its center and colloquially people call this the American Empire, and we know what they're talking about even if it isn't really an empire.
Areading314 8y ago
OK people, the definition of empire is this: From merriam-webster: 1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control 2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion 3 capitalized [Empire State, nickname for New York] : a juicy apple with dark red skin that is a cross between a McIntosh apple and a Red Delicious apple Since the US does not have a single authority controlling it (i.e. "is a democracy") it cannot be an empire. They are mutually exclusive according to the dictionary.

megaman22 8y ago

Democracy and empire are not mutually exclusive. Not that the US is a democracy, exactly, but regardless, Athens, Rome, Britain, were all flavors of democratic when they expanded into imperial activity.

eznoonze 8y ago

USA is not the world's largest democracy. That title goes to India.

Areading314 8y ago
By economy, not headcount
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- eznoonze 8y ago
  Then it should say "world's largest economy", not "world's largest democracy".
- pyrale 8y ago
  If we're going to pick arbitrary metrics to fit our world views, the world 's largest democracy is France [1]. [1] Measured in quality of cheese and wine [2]. [2] Suck it, Italy.
ataturk 8y ago
The US isn't even a democracy, it's a federated republic. Lately I think it's just a plutocracy. We vote quasi-democratically, but really the two party system is a one party system that protects high level interests and prefers corporations over individuals these days. It's an ugly mess that nobody really wants to see reformed.
TomMckenny 8y ago
Pre-Modi India anyway.

wazoox 8y ago

The US being a democracy is largely open for debate: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say...

elbasti 8y ago

Well, to be technical the US does have colonies and territories--the largest of which is Puerto Rico, whose residents have no vote in US elections. There are a number of other small colonies with varying degrees of independence and representation (Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands). And of course the US almost in it's entirety owes its size and natural resources to very real "empire building" in the 19th and 20th centuries. Admittedly the territorial expansion of the US has slowed/stopped in the past 100-200 years, but it's not hard to understand how for someone belonging to a group that lived in a given place for many, many multiples of that duration, the current situation might feel, even today, like occupation. (see: hawaii sovereignty movement, native american reservations) I suppose the question is "when does an empire stop being an empire?" Is it the day it stops expanding? 100 years later? When nobody remembers how things were "before"? I think it's an interesting question.

Symmetry 8y ago

Being a democracy or not doesn't really have anything to do with being an empire, generally you have an empire when you have a state substantially composed of multiple nations. But generally with imperial democracies its only one nation that is a democracy, like in the British Empire where Britain, a democracy, ruled a huge colonial empire. If you really squint hard you could argue that the rest of NATO are military tribute states giving soldiers to the US empire but that's a very strained interpretation. Japan is currently pretty dependent on US military protection but that doesn't seem to have turned into economic exploitation. Certainly American efforts to get Japan to open up to more US exports isn't something Japan has just rolled over on. But the current international system does have the US at its center and colloquially people call this the American Empire, and we know what they're talking about even if it isn't really an empire.

Areading314 8y ago

OK people, the definition of empire is this: From merriam-webster: 1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control 2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion 3 capitalized [Empire State, nickname for New York] : a juicy apple with dark red skin that is a cross between a McIntosh apple and a Red Delicious apple Since the US does not have a single authority controlling it (i.e. "is a democracy") it cannot be an empire. They are mutually exclusive according to the dictionary.