4 ms·

I think Facebook has designed this feature very carefully so as to make sure it doesn't make it easier for another platform to use this as a data import feature

by ajju 16y ago

I think Facebook has designed this feature very carefully so as to make sure it doesn't make it easier for another platform to use this as a data import feature. First, the process to get your data is not "click a button and download" but "click a button - wait for emailed link - download". This means that unless you are comfortable giving the new platform access to your inbox, they can't get your data. Secondly, Mark seemed to be pretty clear in his reply to the last question: The information you download will not contain any information about your friends. It won't have their contact details. I am not sure if it will have a list of their names, but without an email address, such a list would be largely useless to any new platform. So yeah, I think this is a pretty crafty P.R. move, a decent feature for users (hey, being able to download all my FB photos and videos would mean I have to stop worrying about backing them up), but this is not going to help new social networks recruit users.

_delirium 16y ago
That seems like it also reduces some of the potential security downsides. You probably don't want a situation where tricking a user into giving up their password results in the ability to instantly pull huge piles of information.
- ajju 16y ago
  It certainly reduces the potential security downside for Facebook. If someone tricks you into giving up your email password, they could get all of your email but is that a valid argument against letting you download all of your contacts and emails?
ynniv 16y ago
unless you are comfortable giving the new platform access to your inbox, they can't get your data Huh? You receive a link to a zip file, which you then download. Your statement would be pretty FUDly if it weren't so busy being wrong. I am not sure if it will have a list of their names, but without an email address, such a list would be largely useless to any new platform. If your friend also dumps their Facebook data into the new platform, they could be trivially identified as your friend by Facebook id. If ids are scrubbed from all of the data (unlikely), any decent competing service should have the ability for you to find your friends. this is not going to help new social networks recruit users On the contrary, this provides everything that a new social network could ask for. It makes it simple for a user to collect all of their data for import into another site. But here's the amazing part: this has been an open possibility since the f8 conference in April: [ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/04/21/facebook-removing-24-hour-caching-policy-on-user-data-for-developers/ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/04/21/facebook-removing-2... ] The convenience and openness of this latest feature show how confident Facebook is that people won't leave, and they're right. Facebook has become a well regarded premium household brand, and that's extremely difficult to overcome. There is no credible competition at this point, and it will take years to build something which is merely a better loser than MySpace.
- Robin_Message 16y ago
  >>unless you are comfortable giving the new platform access to your inbox, they can't get your data >Huh? You receive a link to a zip file, which you then download. Your statement would be pretty FUDly if it weren't so busy being wrong. I'm assuming the grandparent is talking about an automated site that imports from facebook by asking for my facebook username and password. This can't work, because the zip link goes to my e-mail, so I either have to copy-paste the link from my e-mail or provide my e-mail address and e-mail password as well, as the grandparent said. Your statement would pretty wrong if it weren't so busy being rude :-P
  - ynniv 16y ago
    Your statement would pretty wrong if it weren't so busy being rude It was rude, and deliberately so. The parent brazenly said something that was wholly wrong, which was well received with no dissent. If I care about the quality of information on Hacker News it is my duty to call attention to this situation. A downvote is not sufficient. I either have to copy-paste the link from my e-mail or provide my e-mail address and e-mail password as well This is email! Forward it to signmeup@newsocialnetwork.com! Or, if you read the link I included, you might conclude that any new social network could create a Facebook application capable of automatically obtaining the same data. My brashness comes from my amazement at the utter lack of imagination here, combined with the idea that people "really want to leave Facebook." Facebook has been quick to respond to negative publicity. They make a product with impressive uptime, that hundreds of millions of people are glued to. They aren't afraid of anyone leaving.
    - ajju 16y ago
      My comment was based on Mark's statements. The actual video is at [1]. Scroll forward to 1:26:30. I'll try to quote the relevant parts verbatim: Reporter: "Do you actually get your friends contact info as well. is any of the data in a format that can be easily imported?" Mark: What we are focusing on today is your information...not your friends information, because that is not your information.. That clearly seems to me like they will be scrubbing not just IDs but also email addresses of my friends when I download my data. So when I take my data to a new service, I am not taking my friends with me. This means any new social network that I want to export my friend data to still has to go via the Facebook API. And what's the catch with that? What Facebook doesn't allow anyone who uses their API to do is use data you get from them to target ads to users even if the user consents. See their terms, 9.6, for developers: You will not directly or indirectly transfer any data you receive from us to (or use such data in connection with) any ad network, ad exchange, data broker, or other advertising related toolset, even if a user consents to that transfer or use. Further, the new social network, a Facebook competitor, would continue to be dependent on Facebook and any future changes to their TOS which they are forever subject to. A bunch of people thought that with the user now free to export all their data and import it into a new social network, platforms competing with FB, who want to source data from FB, would be able to do so without consenting to Facebook's terms like the one above and permanently free them from future changes to Facebook's terms. Clearly that is not the case, since using the Graph API means you are still subject to these terms. I was not making any statements about Facebook's confidence or lack thereof. And sure there is no credible competition at this point, but that's my point. Competition is good. Finally, you said: It was rude, and deliberately so...it is my duty to call attention to this situation. A downvote is not sufficient. If you think that calling attention to factual inaccuracies requires being rude, I think you have misjudged HN as a discussion platform and, in my opinion, misunderstood the general rules of conversation as well. I'll leave it at that. I never implied that people "really want to leave Facebook". May be you should stop conflating opinions expressed in other comments with mine. [1] http://www.livestream.com/facebookinnovations/video?clipId=pla_a73f8371-60be-4fc9-a94d-6045de698903&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb http://www.livestream.com/facebookinnovations/video?clipId=p...

by ajju 16y ago

_delirium 16y ago

That seems like it also reduces some of the potential security downsides. You probably don't want a situation where tricking a user into giving up their password results in the ability to instantly pull huge piles of information.

ajju 16y ago
It certainly reduces the potential security downside for Facebook. If someone tricks you into giving up your email password, they could get all of your email but is that a valid argument against letting you download all of your contacts and emails?

ynniv 16y ago

unless you are comfortable giving the new platform access to your inbox, they can't get your data Huh? You receive a link to a zip file, which you then download. Your statement would be pretty FUDly if it weren't so busy being wrong. I am not sure if it will have a list of their names, but without an email address, such a list would be largely useless to any new platform. If your friend also dumps their Facebook data into the new platform, they could be trivially identified as your friend by Facebook id. If ids are scrubbed from all of the data (unlikely), any decent competing service should have the ability for you to find your friends. this is not going to help new social networks recruit users On the contrary, this provides everything that a new social network could ask for. It makes it simple for a user to collect all of their data for import into another site. But here's the amazing part: this has been an open possibility since the f8 conference in April: [ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/04/21/facebook-removing-24-hour-caching-policy-on-user-data-for-developers/ http://www.insidefacebook.com/2010/04/21/facebook-removing-2... ] The convenience and openness of this latest feature show how confident Facebook is that people won't leave, and they're right. Facebook has become a well regarded premium household brand, and that's extremely difficult to overcome. There is no credible competition at this point, and it will take years to build something which is merely a better loser than MySpace.

Robin_Message 16y ago
>>unless you are comfortable giving the new platform access to your inbox, they can't get your data >Huh? You receive a link to a zip file, which you then download. Your statement would be pretty FUDly if it weren't so busy being wrong. I'm assuming the grandparent is talking about an automated site that imports from facebook by asking for my facebook username and password. This can't work, because the zip link goes to my e-mail, so I either have to copy-paste the link from my e-mail or provide my e-mail address and e-mail password as well, as the grandparent said. Your statement would pretty wrong if it weren't so busy being rude :-P
- ynniv 16y ago
  Your statement would pretty wrong if it weren't so busy being rude It was rude, and deliberately so. The parent brazenly said something that was wholly wrong, which was well received with no dissent. If I care about the quality of information on Hacker News it is my duty to call attention to this situation. A downvote is not sufficient. I either have to copy-paste the link from my e-mail or provide my e-mail address and e-mail password as well This is email! Forward it to signmeup@newsocialnetwork.com! Or, if you read the link I included, you might conclude that any new social network could create a Facebook application capable of automatically obtaining the same data. My brashness comes from my amazement at the utter lack of imagination here, combined with the idea that people "really want to leave Facebook." Facebook has been quick to respond to negative publicity. They make a product with impressive uptime, that hundreds of millions of people are glued to. They aren't afraid of anyone leaving.
  - ajju 16y ago
    My comment was based on Mark's statements. The actual video is at [1]. Scroll forward to 1:26:30. I'll try to quote the relevant parts verbatim: Reporter: "Do you actually get your friends contact info as well. is any of the data in a format that can be easily imported?" Mark: What we are focusing on today is your information...not your friends information, because that is not your information.. That clearly seems to me like they will be scrubbing not just IDs but also email addresses of my friends when I download my data. So when I take my data to a new service, I am not taking my friends with me. This means any new social network that I want to export my friend data to still has to go via the Facebook API. And what's the catch with that? What Facebook doesn't allow anyone who uses their API to do is use data you get from them to target ads to users even if the user consents. See their terms, 9.6, for developers: You will not directly or indirectly transfer any data you receive from us to (or use such data in connection with) any ad network, ad exchange, data broker, or other advertising related toolset, even if a user consents to that transfer or use. Further, the new social network, a Facebook competitor, would continue to be dependent on Facebook and any future changes to their TOS which they are forever subject to. A bunch of people thought that with the user now free to export all their data and import it into a new social network, platforms competing with FB, who want to source data from FB, would be able to do so without consenting to Facebook's terms like the one above and permanently free them from future changes to Facebook's terms. Clearly that is not the case, since using the Graph API means you are still subject to these terms. I was not making any statements about Facebook's confidence or lack thereof. And sure there is no credible competition at this point, but that's my point. Competition is good. Finally, you said: It was rude, and deliberately so...it is my duty to call attention to this situation. A downvote is not sufficient. If you think that calling attention to factual inaccuracies requires being rude, I think you have misjudged HN as a discussion platform and, in my opinion, misunderstood the general rules of conversation as well. I'll leave it at that. I never implied that people "really want to leave Facebook". May be you should stop conflating opinions expressed in other comments with mine. [1] http://www.livestream.com/facebookinnovations/video?clipId=pla_a73f8371-60be-4fc9-a94d-6045de698903&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb http://www.livestream.com/facebookinnovations/video?clipId=p...