8 ms·

>Journalists being critical isn't them launching a war, it's them attempting to leave no stone unturned. When you only do your job some of the time, it's reaso

>Journalists being critical isn't them launching a war, it's them attempting to leave no stone unturned. When you only do your job some of the time, it's reasonable to question your motivation. We've had years of Tesla and Musk puff-pieces and it's only in the last few months that journalists have decided to leave no stone unturned en masse.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> we've had years of Tesla and Musk puff-pieces and it's only in the last few months that journalists have decided to leave no stone unturned en masse You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure. When Tesla was flush with cash and the recovery was young, the operating and financial envelope was wide. Tesla had the room (i.e. capital and investors' patience) to screw up. Elon has said he won't raise more capital. He has more investors than before. Many of them have been holding for years. In that midst, he has announced ambitious (i.e. expensive) schedules. That combination creates a precarious envelope. Combine that with being later in the economic cycle, and heightened attention is warranted.
- ameister14 8y ago
  >You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure. I'm not, I'm saying when someone treats you badly for ten years then suddenly changes their attitude, it's reasonable to wonder what motivated the change. Tesla stopped being flush with cash and the recovery stopped being young years ago. He's announced ambitious production schedules (and missed them) multiple times. The 'we won't need more capital' thing? He first said that in 2011. Since then he's come back to raise money several times. The real difference I see this time is a perceived closeness with Trump and general misbehavior on twitter. Hmm, seem to have struck a chord here. Anyone want to actually say what you disagree with so strongly?
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    You wandered off into conspiracy theory land.
    - ameister14 8y ago
      I don't believe I did. It's not a conspiracy to point out that if the press is doing their job now by investigating things, they were not doing their job for years previously. If you don't do what you're supposed to for years, then suddenly change, is it a conspiracy to think that something caused that change? It's not crazy to point out that the press hates Donald Trump, and that Donald Trump loves Elon Musk. It's also not crazy to point out that there's a general cooling of the public's feeling towards tech, and that journalists, particularly hacks, just go where the wind is blowing. It's not due to them suddenly doing their jobs, and it doesn't make them anymore correct now than they were six months ago. Elon Musk is now an easier target, that's all, and he's done them a service by provoking them at the same time.
      - rootusrootus 8y ago
        The press hates Trump? I can find no shortage of press that loves him. How are you defining this mysterious group "The Press" and who is a member, who is not? I think you are just seeing what you want to see. I am also curious why you think there is a general cooling of the public's feeling towards tech?
        ameister14 8y ago
        Really? Remove Fox, Infowars, and Breitbart; could you easily find 5 articles or clips that are genuinely supportive and praising Trump? Trump literally, himself, says that the press is out to get him. You say he's wrong and it's really that they love him?
        topmonk 8y ago
        Sure, easy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-trump-first-year-success-best-20171227-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-per... https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/12/20/president-trumps-successes-have-been-underreported-gary-varvel-column-nation-now/968842001/ https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/12/20... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/31/trump-better-things-president-effects-216201 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/31/trump-bet... https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-12-21/donald-trump-is-the-most-successful-first-year-president-of-all-time https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-12-21/donald-tr... https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwhalen/2018/05/05/if-not-for-the-scandals-and-scattered-messaging-trump-wouldnt-lack-for-good-news/#1a6797672286 https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwhalen/2018/05/05/if-not-fo...
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > The real difference I see this time is a perceived closeness with Trump and general misbehavior on twitter Financial markets aren't known to be sensitive to leaders' political proclivities. Yet the bonds are down and stock's volatility up. Could part of the negative coverage be motivated by Elon's personality and politics? Sure. But the risk profile of the company changed with the SolarCity acquisition and Model 3 announcement in 2016, bond issuance in 2017 and CAPEX and production delays in 2018. One representation of this risk profile is runway, i.e. TTM operating burn + CAPEX / Cash on hand. It is compressed. That concerns existing investors, excites bankers (who might get a stock or bond offering out of it) and entices new investors. Increased attention + narrow envelope leads to concerned/cautious/negative coverage. (It is also difficult to disentangle the increased `general volatility in the markets post-tariffs from Tesla's inherent volatility, which is also linked to the tariff discussion.)
    - ameister14 8y ago
      It's interesting that there's been a massive delay between risk profile change in 2016 and 2017 and the recent drop - a drop that it appears may be temporary. I know a lot of people that have been shorting Tesla for years and have been continuously surprised by its seemingly irrational rise in stock price. If you look at their cash burn in Q4 2016 and Q2-Q3 2017, it doesn't fit with the press on the company or its stock performance at the time. Instead, the price hit all-time highs over that period and press was glowing. I get that as the production numbers didn't increase along with capex there's a crunch in Q1-Q2 2018, but it doesn't seem to me that this is the reason behind tech news' change of heart.
- kodablah 8y ago
  > You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure In the ebbs and flows of positivity/negativity frequency, all flows look like cures for ebbs. Really, it's just the another symptom of the same disease that there are intentionally large peaks and valleys at all (unintentional is a different matter of course).

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> we've had years of Tesla and Musk puff-pieces and it's only in the last few months that journalists have decided to leave no stone unturned en masse You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure. When Tesla was flush with cash and the recovery was young, the operating and financial envelope was wide. Tesla had the room (i.e. capital and investors' patience) to screw up. Elon has said he won't raise more capital. He has more investors than before. Many of them have been holding for years. In that midst, he has announced ambitious (i.e. expensive) schedules. That combination creates a precarious envelope. Combine that with being later in the economic cycle, and heightened attention is warranted.

ameister14 8y ago
>You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure. I'm not, I'm saying when someone treats you badly for ten years then suddenly changes their attitude, it's reasonable to wonder what motivated the change. Tesla stopped being flush with cash and the recovery stopped being young years ago. He's announced ambitious production schedules (and missed them) multiple times. The 'we won't need more capital' thing? He first said that in 2011. Since then he's come back to raise money several times. The real difference I see this time is a perceived closeness with Trump and general misbehavior on twitter. Hmm, seem to have struck a chord here. Anyone want to actually say what you disagree with so strongly?
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  You wandered off into conspiracy theory land.
  - ameister14 8y ago
    I don't believe I did. It's not a conspiracy to point out that if the press is doing their job now by investigating things, they were not doing their job for years previously. If you don't do what you're supposed to for years, then suddenly change, is it a conspiracy to think that something caused that change? It's not crazy to point out that the press hates Donald Trump, and that Donald Trump loves Elon Musk. It's also not crazy to point out that there's a general cooling of the public's feeling towards tech, and that journalists, particularly hacks, just go where the wind is blowing. It's not due to them suddenly doing their jobs, and it doesn't make them anymore correct now than they were six months ago. Elon Musk is now an easier target, that's all, and he's done them a service by provoking them at the same time.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      The press hates Trump? I can find no shortage of press that loves him. How are you defining this mysterious group "The Press" and who is a member, who is not? I think you are just seeing what you want to see. I am also curious why you think there is a general cooling of the public's feeling towards tech?
      - ameister14 8y ago
        Really? Remove Fox, Infowars, and Breitbart; could you easily find 5 articles or clips that are genuinely supportive and praising Trump? Trump literally, himself, says that the press is out to get him. You say he's wrong and it's really that they love him?
        topmonk 8y ago
        Sure, easy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-trump-first-year-success-best-20171227-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-per... https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/12/20/president-trumps-successes-have-been-underreported-gary-varvel-column-nation-now/968842001/ https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/12/20... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/31/trump-better-things-president-effects-216201 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/31/trump-bet... https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-12-21/donald-trump-is-the-most-successful-first-year-president-of-all-time https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-12-21/donald-tr... https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwhalen/2018/05/05/if-not-for-the-scandals-and-scattered-messaging-trump-wouldnt-lack-for-good-news/#1a6797672286 https://www.forbes.com/sites/billwhalen/2018/05/05/if-not-fo...
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > The real difference I see this time is a perceived closeness with Trump and general misbehavior on twitter Financial markets aren't known to be sensitive to leaders' political proclivities. Yet the bonds are down and stock's volatility up. Could part of the negative coverage be motivated by Elon's personality and politics? Sure. But the risk profile of the company changed with the SolarCity acquisition and Model 3 announcement in 2016, bond issuance in 2017 and CAPEX and production delays in 2018. One representation of this risk profile is runway, i.e. TTM operating burn + CAPEX / Cash on hand. It is compressed. That concerns existing investors, excites bankers (who might get a stock or bond offering out of it) and entices new investors. Increased attention + narrow envelope leads to concerned/cautious/negative coverage. (It is also difficult to disentangle the increased `general volatility in the markets post-tariffs from Tesla's inherent volatility, which is also linked to the tariff discussion.)
  - ameister14 8y ago
    It's interesting that there's been a massive delay between risk profile change in 2016 and 2017 and the recent drop - a drop that it appears may be temporary. I know a lot of people that have been shorting Tesla for years and have been continuously surprised by its seemingly irrational rise in stock price. If you look at their cash burn in Q4 2016 and Q2-Q3 2017, it doesn't fit with the press on the company or its stock performance at the time. Instead, the price hit all-time highs over that period and press was glowing. I get that as the production numbers didn't increase along with capex there's a crunch in Q1-Q2 2018, but it doesn't seem to me that this is the reason behind tech news' change of heart.
kodablah 8y ago
> You're complaining about the disease and then complaining about the cure In the ebbs and flows of positivity/negativity frequency, all flows look like cures for ebbs. Really, it's just the another symptom of the same disease that there are intentionally large peaks and valleys at all (unintentional is a different matter of course).