4 ms·

These kinds of tools are mostly about the input constraints, heuristics, and weights. I'd love to see more about this with more practical constraints (rectiline

These kinds of tools are mostly about the input constraints, heuristics, and weights. I'd love to see more about this with more practical constraints (rectilinear rooms and hallways, minimum area for cafetaria/gym, etc) and additional heuristics, such as window area in classrooms, number of hallways/intersections for ease-of-navigation, and building costs beyond just material use.

riebschlager 8y ago
> building costs beyond just material use Yep. The "optimized" floorplans would be an order of magnitude more expensive to build than the original. I mean, drywall alone would take a lot more time with all the cuts, mudding and sanding more joints. The thought of framing out these walls makes my head hurt.
- derefr 8y ago
  But would it still cost more if the building were made of prefab-stamped “IKEA pieces”, rather than stick-built? I.e., if you had to build the house 100 times (for a townhouse development, say), and so “factored out” the assembly of the framing and drywall and etc. for each curve and corner, would the labor costs then approach equivalence?
  - jtbayly 8y ago
    No, because those joints still need to be created somewhere in the process. It might be cheaper than the one-off build, but it wouldn't be cheaper compared to a more efficient design "factored out."
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  What about concrete 3D-printing? (I'm not even sure if it's real or feasible; I just remember a bunch of pop news articles with a video of a large CNC machine depositing concrete to construct a building.)
  - jethro_tell 8y ago
    Concrete is manual 3D printing from 100+ years ago. =) I've seen a concrete 3d printer, but it doesn't look like it would be structural. i.e. not sure how you would print around full lengths of rebar?
    - theoh 8y ago
      You have to build formwork to construct with in-situ concrete, so there's still carpentry (or equivalent) involved. It's a good point that existing architectural concrete 3d printing creates "mass concrete" not reinforced concrete, but mass concrete can be structural.
      - jethro_tell 8y ago
        What sort of structure would you use a concrete without a tensile support like rebar or steel of some kind? How would that stand up in an earthquake?
        theoh 8y ago
        "Primitive" structures and other structures engineered to avoid tension in the concrete. Concrete doesn't have zero tensile strength. Apparently it's a few MPa, so a fifth or a tenth of the compressive strength. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amp/concrete-properties-d_1223.html http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amp/concrete-properties-d_... The large dome of the (Roman) Pantheon is unreinforced concrete. Most compressive structures built before the modern period (arches, domes, buttresses) were not reinforced with tension elements, just plain masonry.
        crwalker 8y ago
        The concrete in the Pantheon is exposed to max ~20 psi tensile stress, and the concrete can handle about ~200 psi tensile stress. http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/chapt01/chapt01.htm http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/chapt01/chapt01.htm
        8y ago
- Semiapies 8y ago
  And even if you had a building process that made circular/n-gon-based rooms practical, furnishing and laying out those rooms would be awkward. See the problems people have furnishing dome houses. I'd least envy the people trying to arrange shelving in the library... Still, interesting. I'd be curious to see results as he adds more practical constrains.
  - burfog 8y ago
    It doesn't look bad at all. Dome home: most rooms will have 2 or 3 flat walls with 1 or 2 right-angle corners, so put rectangular furniture there. Classrooms and library at the proposed school: the size of the room dwarfs the size of the furniture, so the problem is much like complaining that the letter "O" can not be made from square pixels. Somehow, we get our letter "O".
dizzydot 8y ago
This is essentially what the author said in the summary.
- jmilloy 8y ago
  Yep. Credit to the author. The page has been updated today since I wrote that comment.

riebschlager 8y ago

> building costs beyond just material use Yep. The "optimized" floorplans would be an order of magnitude more expensive to build than the original. I mean, drywall alone would take a lot more time with all the cuts, mudding and sanding more joints. The thought of framing out these walls makes my head hurt.

derefr 8y ago
But would it still cost more if the building were made of prefab-stamped “IKEA pieces”, rather than stick-built? I.e., if you had to build the house 100 times (for a townhouse development, say), and so “factored out” the assembly of the framing and drywall and etc. for each curve and corner, would the labor costs then approach equivalence?
- jtbayly 8y ago
  No, because those joints still need to be created somewhere in the process. It might be cheaper than the one-off build, but it wouldn't be cheaper compared to a more efficient design "factored out."
TeMPOraL 8y ago
What about concrete 3D-printing? (I'm not even sure if it's real or feasible; I just remember a bunch of pop news articles with a video of a large CNC machine depositing concrete to construct a building.)
- jethro_tell 8y ago
  Concrete is manual 3D printing from 100+ years ago. =) I've seen a concrete 3d printer, but it doesn't look like it would be structural. i.e. not sure how you would print around full lengths of rebar?
  - theoh 8y ago
    You have to build formwork to construct with in-situ concrete, so there's still carpentry (or equivalent) involved. It's a good point that existing architectural concrete 3d printing creates "mass concrete" not reinforced concrete, but mass concrete can be structural.
    - jethro_tell 8y ago
      What sort of structure would you use a concrete without a tensile support like rebar or steel of some kind? How would that stand up in an earthquake?
      - theoh 8y ago
        "Primitive" structures and other structures engineered to avoid tension in the concrete. Concrete doesn't have zero tensile strength. Apparently it's a few MPa, so a fifth or a tenth of the compressive strength. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amp/concrete-properties-d_1223.html http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amp/concrete-properties-d_... The large dome of the (Roman) Pantheon is unreinforced concrete. Most compressive structures built before the modern period (arches, domes, buttresses) were not reinforced with tension elements, just plain masonry.
        crwalker 8y ago
        The concrete in the Pantheon is exposed to max ~20 psi tensile stress, and the concrete can handle about ~200 psi tensile stress. http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/chapt01/chapt01.htm http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/chapt01/chapt01.htm
      - 8y ago
Semiapies 8y ago
And even if you had a building process that made circular/n-gon-based rooms practical, furnishing and laying out those rooms would be awkward. See the problems people have furnishing dome houses. I'd least envy the people trying to arrange shelving in the library... Still, interesting. I'd be curious to see results as he adds more practical constrains.
- burfog 8y ago
  It doesn't look bad at all. Dome home: most rooms will have 2 or 3 flat walls with 1 or 2 right-angle corners, so put rectangular furniture there. Classrooms and library at the proposed school: the size of the room dwarfs the size of the furniture, so the problem is much like complaining that the letter "O" can not be made from square pixels. Somehow, we get our letter "O".

dizzydot 8y ago

This is essentially what the author said in the summary.

jmilloy 8y ago
Yep. Credit to the author. The page has been updated today since I wrote that comment.