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What companies need to start doing is digitally signing their products (e.g. put a unique code on each box that is generated from a private key). Then Amazon an

What companies need to start doing is digitally signing their products (e.g. put a unique code on each box that is generated from a private key). Then Amazon and/or sellers can go online and verify this key to ensure their wares are not replica.

taeric 8y ago
I'm curious how you think that would work. They could sign the serial number, I suppose, but I don't see why the fakes wouldn't just recycle serial numbers at that point. For fast moving parts, they could include a date, but you could still just copy some other one from recent checks.
- alexandercrohde 8y ago
  I think how it would work (if I amazon wanted it to) is that the supplier would send the list of signatures for the next 200 products to amazon (which would then check for duplicates). Presumably these signatures could be scanned from a barcode format programatically. Also, consumers believing they had a fake product could then go to the website of these manufacturers, who would have an incentive to make a web-ui to reveal duplicates/phonies. I'm not gonna pretend I've invented a perfect end-to-end solution here, but if I'm getting 90% of the way there in 10 minutes then let's not pretend it's unsolvable.
  - taeric 8y ago
    Apologies if my tone made it sound dismissive. I'm genuinely interested in how this could be made to work. I agree in thinking a full on handshake would be required. Not sure how instrumented all of the suppliers would be. And I'd imagine that is where a lot of the pain to build a solution like this would be. Any other approaches that you could think of that don't require cooperation from every party? There is also the question of cost and basic reach. You assert this gets 90% of the way there. Do we really think the fake problem is over 10% of traffic today? I'd be surprised if that is the case. I don't have numbers, but I would expect this to be in the .1% range. At the scale of a large store, that is still a giant number.
- Steltek 8y ago
  Put the serial number under a scratch off. Once the serial number is registered by a customer via an online database, future verification would show other purchases as counterfeit. It has some drawbacks: - You need a significant number of people to start registering their purchases online, which no one does - I've heard counterfeiters sometimes operate from the same factory. Legit serials could be generated for fake parts. - Customers will obliviously try to pursue returns with the victim manufacturer instead of Amazon.
  - pixl97 8y ago
    >I've heard counterfeiters sometimes operate from the same factory. Legit serials could be generated for fake parts. A few years ago I ordered 60 computers from Dell with office 2016. About half of the 2016 serial cards were from the US, they all worked. Of the other half from China, half were already registered under office accounts. These were cards with scratch off covering part of the serial.

taeric 8y ago

I'm curious how you think that would work. They could sign the serial number, I suppose, but I don't see why the fakes wouldn't just recycle serial numbers at that point. For fast moving parts, they could include a date, but you could still just copy some other one from recent checks.

alexandercrohde 8y ago
I think how it would work (if I amazon wanted it to) is that the supplier would send the list of signatures for the next 200 products to amazon (which would then check for duplicates). Presumably these signatures could be scanned from a barcode format programatically. Also, consumers believing they had a fake product could then go to the website of these manufacturers, who would have an incentive to make a web-ui to reveal duplicates/phonies. I'm not gonna pretend I've invented a perfect end-to-end solution here, but if I'm getting 90% of the way there in 10 minutes then let's not pretend it's unsolvable.
- taeric 8y ago
  Apologies if my tone made it sound dismissive. I'm genuinely interested in how this could be made to work. I agree in thinking a full on handshake would be required. Not sure how instrumented all of the suppliers would be. And I'd imagine that is where a lot of the pain to build a solution like this would be. Any other approaches that you could think of that don't require cooperation from every party? There is also the question of cost and basic reach. You assert this gets 90% of the way there. Do we really think the fake problem is over 10% of traffic today? I'd be surprised if that is the case. I don't have numbers, but I would expect this to be in the .1% range. At the scale of a large store, that is still a giant number.
Steltek 8y ago
Put the serial number under a scratch off. Once the serial number is registered by a customer via an online database, future verification would show other purchases as counterfeit. It has some drawbacks: - You need a significant number of people to start registering their purchases online, which no one does - I've heard counterfeiters sometimes operate from the same factory. Legit serials could be generated for fake parts. - Customers will obliviously try to pursue returns with the victim manufacturer instead of Amazon.
- pixl97 8y ago
  >I've heard counterfeiters sometimes operate from the same factory. Legit serials could be generated for fake parts. A few years ago I ordered 60 computers from Dell with office 2016. About half of the 2016 serial cards were from the US, they all worked. Of the other half from China, half were already registered under office accounts. These were cards with scratch off covering part of the serial.