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That is interesting. In my case, I have had the best consumer-friendly experience when it comes to returning or replacing items in the US. Returning electronics

That is interesting. In my case, I have had the best consumer-friendly experience when it comes to returning or replacing items in the US. Returning electronics, clothes etc. to Wallmart, Target, BestBuy was totally hassle-free. When compared to Germany, the overall experience in the US is much better. Although Germans have "stronger" customer rights protection, in reality, you get less customer satisfaction. For example, a few days ago I purchased a pair of sunglasses from TKMaxx in Germany. After wearing it a couple of times, I realized that there are tiny scratches on them. I then took it back for a replacement. I was denied the replacement, because "the item didn't have the original price sticker on it". It was such a ridiculous excuse. I tear the price sticker the moment I buy the stuff. How am I supposed to test it to see if I like it without using it at all? There was another friend of mine who wanted to get a replacement for a malfunctioning smartphone he bought in MediaMarkt. He was also denied the replacement in the first place. After a long "negotiations" he was finally given a new smartphone, which, again, would not happen in the US at all. All in all, I find shopping experience in the US to be way better than in Europe.

zaarn 8y ago
You want the receipt to return stuff at the market, though generally if it's not a warranty case then you're at the sellers good will if they accept it. Online shops are a bit better and you can return within 14 days no questions asked. Most of german consumer protection happens at the backend and between shops, not directly with the consumer.
- hmd_imputer 8y ago
  of course, I had the receipt. Otherwise, they wouldn't even consider replacing them. > though generally if it's not a warranty case then you're at the sellers good will if they accept it. well, that is the problem. A good set of consumer protection laws shouldn't leave the consumer to the seller's good will, don't you think? > Most of german consumer protection happens at the backend and between shops, not directly with the consumer. Whatever that means... Why would I care what happens behind the doors If I, as a consumer, don't see the real-life benefits of it? The thing is, German customer protection laws are just laws with no real implications. As with almost everything else in Germany, there are more exceptions to the laws than the laws themselves, which makes it possible for the stronger side (sellers, renter, contractors etc. ) to find a loophole and exploit it for their benefit. I am not even talking about scammy contracts with internet and mobile companies that would not be possible in any other developed country. A very relevant link: https://twitter.com/FRYTG/status/1023927351514734593 https://twitter.com/FRYTG/status/1023927351514734593
  - zaarn 8y ago
    >A good set of consumer protection laws shouldn't leave the consumer to the seller's good will, don't you think? When you buy in store, the old saying "bought as seen" applies. If I buy some food and find out on the way home that it's spoiled and past date, I can bring it back and likely it'll get replaced but they don't have to. I should have checked. When you buy glasses, check for scratches. For warranty claims you'd need some kind of bigger problem than something that can be considered wear and tear or that was present when bought. The consumer laws are concerned with malicious activity where someone is trying to actively trick a customer (which is where you get silly rulings like vegan sausages not being able to be called sausages as such would imply it contains meat). And don't worry about implications or consequences, when the responsible government offices get riled up they really hit hard. In regards to mobile/internet contracts, it helps to read the fineprint. Additionally if they do make trouble, contacting your local customer rights organization, the contract will get dropped very fast with little complaints.
    - hmd_imputer 8y ago
      > When you buy glasses, check for scratches. Those scratches were only visible under direct sunlight and after a close examination. Besides, you assume that it is always possible to see defects when buying an item, which is, I am sorry, really ridiculous. The point is, if I bought the same pair of glasses in the US, there would be zero problems returning them. Absolutely zero. In most cases, they would even apologize for selling you a defective item and wasting your time. Not the case for Germany, and this is the problem. Does Germany have better customer protection laws than most of the developing world? Definitely. Does Germany have better customer protection laws and better customer satisfaction than the US and most other developed countries? Definitely not. And that was my point. Edit: typos
    - hmd_imputer 8y ago
      > In regards to mobile/internet contracts, it helps to read the fineprint. The same old argument... The problem originates from the fact that the internet/phone providers can actually put those fine prints on the contract. So saying that you should read the fineprints doesn't mean anything. Why don't I have the same type of scammy contract elsewhere? Why is it only in Germany (at least among the many countries I have lived in)? Why does someone who already moved to the Netherlands have to wait for 6 months to cancel the contract they had with a phone company? Shouldn't it be immediate? I leave the country, which means I should be able to cancel any contracts that I have with any company. That should be a basic customer right, or even better, that should be the default treatment of customers by the companies without even needing all these regulations. The copmanies should have this customer-centric mindset, which is lacking in Germany in almost every field (aka Serviewüste Deutschland)
roganartu 8y ago
You'll find that replacements for change of mind in Australia (and perhaps other countries with strong consumer protections) are less friendly. I have definitely noticed there are more stores in the US (especially big box retailers that are competing with Amazon) that have flexible return policies in the short term for changing your mind, while my expectation for any store in Australia is that you are likely unable to return something for change of mind if it has been used. The trade off for that is that you get very long periods of fitness for use, where you can comfortably buy something that is advertised for a purpose and know that you can return it after a reasonable time if it isn't actually fit for that purpose. A good example is smartphones and laptops, where Australian-sold iphones effectively have a two year warranty and macbooks have a three year one iirc because of these strong consumer protection laws. It's these kinds of faulty goods returns to smaller retailers that I've had most trouble with in the US (and where I think consumer protection makes the most sense). In Australia the consumer would simply file a complaint online to the Department of Fair Trading (or whatever it is for their state) and these are usually resolved within a couple of weeks or less and usually in the consumer's favour. I'm not aware of any equivalent in the US, and if it does exist I'm sure it varies significantly state-to-state.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >> How am I supposed to test it to see if I like it without using it at all? Test it in the store. Nobody in north america expects they can buy something, walk away with it, and then have a right to return it simply because they don't "like it". A store may take it back but only because they are kind, not because they are under any legal obligation. Remember there is always a flip side to returns. Either the seller eats a loss, or they put the now used object back on the shelf as new. That is why safety-related products have a zero-returns policy. Rock climbing gear is generally non-returnable. I probably would not buy climbing gear from any store that did returns for fear of getting used gear with unseen problems.
  - hmd_imputer 8y ago
    > Test it in the store. Thanks, but I will pass. I would rather test my stuff at home, taking my time. In general, it will lead to higher customer satisfaction and confidence. People would be willing to buy more often knowing that in case they are not satisfied, they can simply return the product hassle-free. (A concise and clear return policy gives consumers a feeling of security; that what they are buying is guaranteed to be what it is represented to be. If a retailer doesn't give this guarantee, then consumers often become suspicious and avoid buying the product.) > Nobody in north america expects they can buy something, walk away with it, and then have a right to return it simply because they don't "like it". Have you ever been to the Customer service section of a WallMart store? :) Of course, there should be a code of honor by the customers as well. If you buy something with the intention of returning it after using, then you are just a bad person. But that shouldn't mean If I have legitimate reasons to return some item, I shouldn't. That is how stores maintain customer satisfaction, thus a competitive advantage.

zaarn 8y ago

You want the receipt to return stuff at the market, though generally if it's not a warranty case then you're at the sellers good will if they accept it. Online shops are a bit better and you can return within 14 days no questions asked. Most of german consumer protection happens at the backend and between shops, not directly with the consumer.

hmd_imputer 8y ago
of course, I had the receipt. Otherwise, they wouldn't even consider replacing them. > though generally if it's not a warranty case then you're at the sellers good will if they accept it. well, that is the problem. A good set of consumer protection laws shouldn't leave the consumer to the seller's good will, don't you think? > Most of german consumer protection happens at the backend and between shops, not directly with the consumer. Whatever that means... Why would I care what happens behind the doors If I, as a consumer, don't see the real-life benefits of it? The thing is, German customer protection laws are just laws with no real implications. As with almost everything else in Germany, there are more exceptions to the laws than the laws themselves, which makes it possible for the stronger side (sellers, renter, contractors etc. ) to find a loophole and exploit it for their benefit. I am not even talking about scammy contracts with internet and mobile companies that would not be possible in any other developed country. A very relevant link: https://twitter.com/FRYTG/status/1023927351514734593 https://twitter.com/FRYTG/status/1023927351514734593
- zaarn 8y ago
  >A good set of consumer protection laws shouldn't leave the consumer to the seller's good will, don't you think? When you buy in store, the old saying "bought as seen" applies. If I buy some food and find out on the way home that it's spoiled and past date, I can bring it back and likely it'll get replaced but they don't have to. I should have checked. When you buy glasses, check for scratches. For warranty claims you'd need some kind of bigger problem than something that can be considered wear and tear or that was present when bought. The consumer laws are concerned with malicious activity where someone is trying to actively trick a customer (which is where you get silly rulings like vegan sausages not being able to be called sausages as such would imply it contains meat). And don't worry about implications or consequences, when the responsible government offices get riled up they really hit hard. In regards to mobile/internet contracts, it helps to read the fineprint. Additionally if they do make trouble, contacting your local customer rights organization, the contract will get dropped very fast with little complaints.
  - hmd_imputer 8y ago
    > When you buy glasses, check for scratches. Those scratches were only visible under direct sunlight and after a close examination. Besides, you assume that it is always possible to see defects when buying an item, which is, I am sorry, really ridiculous. The point is, if I bought the same pair of glasses in the US, there would be zero problems returning them. Absolutely zero. In most cases, they would even apologize for selling you a defective item and wasting your time. Not the case for Germany, and this is the problem. Does Germany have better customer protection laws than most of the developing world? Definitely. Does Germany have better customer protection laws and better customer satisfaction than the US and most other developed countries? Definitely not. And that was my point. Edit: typos
  - hmd_imputer 8y ago
    > In regards to mobile/internet contracts, it helps to read the fineprint. The same old argument... The problem originates from the fact that the internet/phone providers can actually put those fine prints on the contract. So saying that you should read the fineprints doesn't mean anything. Why don't I have the same type of scammy contract elsewhere? Why is it only in Germany (at least among the many countries I have lived in)? Why does someone who already moved to the Netherlands have to wait for 6 months to cancel the contract they had with a phone company? Shouldn't it be immediate? I leave the country, which means I should be able to cancel any contracts that I have with any company. That should be a basic customer right, or even better, that should be the default treatment of customers by the companies without even needing all these regulations. The copmanies should have this customer-centric mindset, which is lacking in Germany in almost every field (aka Serviewüste Deutschland)

roganartu 8y ago

You'll find that replacements for change of mind in Australia (and perhaps other countries with strong consumer protections) are less friendly. I have definitely noticed there are more stores in the US (especially big box retailers that are competing with Amazon) that have flexible return policies in the short term for changing your mind, while my expectation for any store in Australia is that you are likely unable to return something for change of mind if it has been used. The trade off for that is that you get very long periods of fitness for use, where you can comfortably buy something that is advertised for a purpose and know that you can return it after a reasonable time if it isn't actually fit for that purpose. A good example is smartphones and laptops, where Australian-sold iphones effectively have a two year warranty and macbooks have a three year one iirc because of these strong consumer protection laws. It's these kinds of faulty goods returns to smaller retailers that I've had most trouble with in the US (and where I think consumer protection makes the most sense). In Australia the consumer would simply file a complaint online to the Department of Fair Trading (or whatever it is for their state) and these are usually resolved within a couple of weeks or less and usually in the consumer's favour. I'm not aware of any equivalent in the US, and if it does exist I'm sure it varies significantly state-to-state.

sandworm101 8y ago
>> How am I supposed to test it to see if I like it without using it at all? Test it in the store. Nobody in north america expects they can buy something, walk away with it, and then have a right to return it simply because they don't "like it". A store may take it back but only because they are kind, not because they are under any legal obligation. Remember there is always a flip side to returns. Either the seller eats a loss, or they put the now used object back on the shelf as new. That is why safety-related products have a zero-returns policy. Rock climbing gear is generally non-returnable. I probably would not buy climbing gear from any store that did returns for fear of getting used gear with unseen problems.
- hmd_imputer 8y ago
  > Test it in the store. Thanks, but I will pass. I would rather test my stuff at home, taking my time. In general, it will lead to higher customer satisfaction and confidence. People would be willing to buy more often knowing that in case they are not satisfied, they can simply return the product hassle-free. (A concise and clear return policy gives consumers a feeling of security; that what they are buying is guaranteed to be what it is represented to be. If a retailer doesn't give this guarantee, then consumers often become suspicious and avoid buying the product.) > Nobody in north america expects they can buy something, walk away with it, and then have a right to return it simply because they don't "like it". Have you ever been to the Customer service section of a WallMart store? :) Of course, there should be a code of honor by the customers as well. If you buy something with the intention of returning it after using, then you are just a bad person. But that shouldn't mean If I have legitimate reasons to return some item, I shouldn't. That is how stores maintain customer satisfaction, thus a competitive advantage.