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As a member (one would assume a "remain" country), the UK has been getting the best deal of the lot, and has been complaining for over 40 years, asking more and

As a member (one would assume a "remain" country), the UK has been getting the best deal of the lot, and has been complaining for over 40 years, asking more and more. It has consistently used the EU as escape goat. Not particularly fair. As a future partner (a "brexit" country, which is a completely different beast, since it will be one can assume steered by brexiteers, with a position towards the EU between animosity and hatred), the signals coming from the UK are very worrying. From the top of my head, some things I have been reading lately (mainly in the Telegraph, I do not bother with the Daily Mail or The Sun, which are probably much worse): - the UK will undercut the EU in taxes - the UK will leverage its financial prowess to extract concessions from the EU - intelligence capabilities will be used to further put pressure on the EU And many, many more. Regarding the willingness of be held to account: the UK refuses to let the ECJ be the arbitrer of future disputes. What does this mean? Either there must be no arbitrer (so not held to account), or we need a new arbitrer (why more red tape?)

detritus 8y ago
> asking more and more As every country should. I guess it's down to a difference in philosophy - we've long been a nation of shopkeepers, after all. Much like the Dutch. There's little new here, other than a hesitation to subsidise the French. These are ancient games and I'm sure a root of De Gaulle's reticence about the UK's joining. As I said, from my perspective, I see that at worst the UK plays by the rules, but lobbies for those rules to work in its favour, rather than simply ignoring them when it suits. > Telegraph aka, 'Torygraph', a right wing broadsheet with questionable interests and a fully-Brexiteering vehicle. I follow it too, but only to see what those at the periphery are thinking. For balance, check The Guardian or [Russian-owned and ever deteriorating] Independent for a completely different perspective of thought from within the UK. I'm sure there are equivalent publications in other European nations. > the UK will undercut the EU in taxes As Ireland or - good Lord, Luxembourg do now? As France intends? > the UK will leverage its financial prowess to extract concessions from the EU You mean the threat for 'tit for tat' measures against the EU if it continues to threaten The City with hard-line against Euro Clearing? Hardly surprising when the EU is the only principal reserve currency suddenly insisting that its clearing be done 'in-house', apparently with the sole intention of clawing some banking onto the continent. > intelligence capabilities will be used to further put pressure on the EU I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I hardly see the French and German intelligence agencies as being any less capable or unscrupulous. Here in Blighty we're just more public-facing about capability and intent. Getting back to Galileo for a second, it was the UK's role in Galileo to provide some of the more complex cryptographic aspects of the system - I find it odd how a country can go from trusted partner to polar opposite based on a flawed referendum by its people.
- gonvaled 8y ago
  > As every country should It is tiring to hear continuously what an exceptional country the UK is. We are all exceptional, but we all abide by the same rules. That's kind of the point of having a union. > The Guardian or [Russian-owned and ever deteriorating] Independent I read both too. I didn't know The Independent was Russian owned, but little matters. It seems a bit populist, but more balanced than the Telegraph. I find the Telegraph interesting because it is the Government's paper (/s), it seems to reflect the views of a big chunk of the British population, and because it is so extremely one-sided that it seems incredible that this is what nowadays passes by mainstream opinion (and by serious journalism) in the UK. The Guardian seems very balanced (boring?). > As Ireland or - good Lord, Luxembourg do now? As France intends? Sure. And if they cross a line, we have EU institutions to correct the situation. That is the point of being under the ECJ. The EU is not a "I blindly trust you" organization: it is a "you'd better stick to the agreements, otherwise you'll get into trouble: look, you signed here". This is how to build a community. Ireland, for example, has been fined for its tax practices (Apple). And you are overlooking a very important aspect: one thing is to have Ireland or Luxembourg offering discounted tax rates (which is already a problem, as we can see with all the tech companies being in those countries). But Ireland is nearly a tenth and Luxembourg a twentieth of the UK's size, in GDP terms ([1]). The UK being a tax heaven is a huge problem for the EU. > Hardly surprising when the EU is the only principal reserve currency suddenly insisting that its clearing be done 'in-house', apparently with the sole intention of clawing some banking onto the continent. The EU is also the only economic area without clearing being done in its territory, post-Brexit. It is a huge risk. If the only way to balance the situation is going against the interests of a third party, so be it. The EU does not concern itself anymore with the interests of the UK, in so far as those interests are not related to EU's interests. > I'm not sure what you mean by this I mean the repeated threats by the UK about withholding intelligence from the EU if other matters (trade deal) are not agreed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

detritus 8y ago

> asking more and more As every country should. I guess it's down to a difference in philosophy - we've long been a nation of shopkeepers, after all. Much like the Dutch. There's little new here, other than a hesitation to subsidise the French. These are ancient games and I'm sure a root of De Gaulle's reticence about the UK's joining. As I said, from my perspective, I see that at worst the UK plays by the rules, but lobbies for those rules to work in its favour, rather than simply ignoring them when it suits. > Telegraph aka, 'Torygraph', a right wing broadsheet with questionable interests and a fully-Brexiteering vehicle. I follow it too, but only to see what those at the periphery are thinking. For balance, check The Guardian or [Russian-owned and ever deteriorating] Independent for a completely different perspective of thought from within the UK. I'm sure there are equivalent publications in other European nations. > the UK will undercut the EU in taxes As Ireland or - good Lord, Luxembourg do now? As France intends? > the UK will leverage its financial prowess to extract concessions from the EU You mean the threat for 'tit for tat' measures against the EU if it continues to threaten The City with hard-line against Euro Clearing? Hardly surprising when the EU is the only principal reserve currency suddenly insisting that its clearing be done 'in-house', apparently with the sole intention of clawing some banking onto the continent. > intelligence capabilities will be used to further put pressure on the EU I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I hardly see the French and German intelligence agencies as being any less capable or unscrupulous. Here in Blighty we're just more public-facing about capability and intent. Getting back to Galileo for a second, it was the UK's role in Galileo to provide some of the more complex cryptographic aspects of the system - I find it odd how a country can go from trusted partner to polar opposite based on a flawed referendum by its people.

gonvaled 8y ago
> As every country should It is tiring to hear continuously what an exceptional country the UK is. We are all exceptional, but we all abide by the same rules. That's kind of the point of having a union. > The Guardian or [Russian-owned and ever deteriorating] Independent I read both too. I didn't know The Independent was Russian owned, but little matters. It seems a bit populist, but more balanced than the Telegraph. I find the Telegraph interesting because it is the Government's paper (/s), it seems to reflect the views of a big chunk of the British population, and because it is so extremely one-sided that it seems incredible that this is what nowadays passes by mainstream opinion (and by serious journalism) in the UK. The Guardian seems very balanced (boring?). > As Ireland or - good Lord, Luxembourg do now? As France intends? Sure. And if they cross a line, we have EU institutions to correct the situation. That is the point of being under the ECJ. The EU is not a "I blindly trust you" organization: it is a "you'd better stick to the agreements, otherwise you'll get into trouble: look, you signed here". This is how to build a community. Ireland, for example, has been fined for its tax practices (Apple). And you are overlooking a very important aspect: one thing is to have Ireland or Luxembourg offering discounted tax rates (which is already a problem, as we can see with all the tech companies being in those countries). But Ireland is nearly a tenth and Luxembourg a twentieth of the UK's size, in GDP terms ([1]). The UK being a tax heaven is a huge problem for the EU. > Hardly surprising when the EU is the only principal reserve currency suddenly insisting that its clearing be done 'in-house', apparently with the sole intention of clawing some banking onto the continent. The EU is also the only economic area without clearing being done in its territory, post-Brexit. It is a huge risk. If the only way to balance the situation is going against the interests of a third party, so be it. The EU does not concern itself anymore with the interests of the UK, in so far as those interests are not related to EU's interests. > I'm not sure what you mean by this I mean the repeated threats by the UK about withholding intelligence from the EU if other matters (trade deal) are not agreed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...