4 ms·

> Now Microsoft was certainly aware that Krita is open source software published in the GNU Public License, and Krita would be distributed outside the Windows S

> Now Microsoft was certainly aware that Krita is open source software published in the GNU Public License, and Krita would be distributed outside the Windows Store. They actually helped us get Krita in the Windows Store to begin with... > In any case, since we’re absolutely powerless, we’ve had to change the Store listing… This is outrageous! MS reached out[1] to Krita team to get the app on their store, and now forcing the devs to delete link to the Krita website! [1] https://krita.org/en/item/krita-available-from-the-windows-store/ https://krita.org/en/item/krita-available-from-the-windows-s...

nilsocket 8y ago
Yeah, they could have mentioned the same and got some exception.
executesorder66 8y ago
I'm loving the "new" microsoft.
- std_throwaway 8y ago
  I see many arguments incoming defending Microsoft and getting more or less visibility depending on the audience at the time. Something along the lines of: "Let's compare it to some competitor who also does it wrong. See they are not doing any better but they are not criticized as much. How can you complain about this company then? You can't. We must be glad for what they give us. See how much good they do and how little you have achieved compared to an international giant. If you really want to do better go make your own store. You can't? Obviously you can't. Then you can't criticize." But the bottom line is that all these companies are ruled by money first and foremost. Sure, there are differences in detail and the approach they take but in the end the logic of money trumps all morals. For the "new" Microsoft this means that they have changed their approach because of money. Whatever good they do for us is because they think it will make them money in the long run. I think of it as a long running PR action and a medium change of company culture. If it suits them, they will change it back over night. WE must keep them under pressure to do the right thing by not letting us be held hostage by monopolies and always having a way out. So support your open source software because in the long run it will dominate in most places.
- m_fayer 8y ago
  There are two new Microsofts, both trying to make great big piles of money. One is the tech infrastructure provider. They're keeping the corporate customers but now also going after consumer-facing tech and startups. To do the latter, they've finally had to shed their dogma and go where the devs are. OSS, platform-agnostic, this is the MS of .NET Core, VSCode, and family. There's good people working here, and they'll make Azure make heaps of money. The other Microsoft does "platforms". They've had a lock on corporate for a long time, though no one enjoyed it. Now they want to expand their brand and their lock-in into the personal lives of upper-class knowledge workers, challenging Apple by being the "serious" to Apple's luxury-hipster positioning, and challenging Google by being coherent and playing a long game. The first Microsoft knows that the second is no place for their audience, so they're in a hurry to separate themselves and their wares from the platform-provider. It's not just .NET Core and VSCode, there's a ton of smaller projects all moving in the same direction. Sql Operations Studio, Sql Server for Linux, Blazor, x-plat Azure tooling, x-plat Powershell, opensourcing MSBuild, it's comprehensive. I wish they'd just split and become two separate companies.
  - styfle 8y ago
    Microsoft Windows vs Microsoft everything else?
  - OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
    TLDR: Same shitty decisions made but it's different now because OMG the CLOUD (TM) (R).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
amf12 8y ago
I don't understand how this is outrageous. The terms do not say that you can't have other means of distribution just that you can't link to them through the MS app or the listing page. Its like you selling a product on Amazon with a link in the listing that says buy it from my website for a 10% discount. I'm sure Amazon won't allow that. Krita was asked to delete a link which points to the external download location and not the one to their website. Seems fair to me. Krita being a FOSS can have it available for free on the MS store and have a link to their donate page. If MS doesn't allow that, then it would be outrageous. The terms look to have been written to prevent abuse by devs. This being a FOSS might warrant special circumstances, but I wouldn't hold it against MS for not providing those special circumstances.
- iamcreasy 8y ago
  > The terms do not say that you can't have other means of distribution just that you can't link to them through the MS app or the listing page. That's not what the policy says. It says, if you app process some sort of payment(policy 10.8) then it has to be distributed only through MS Store(policy 10.8.5). Edit: removed duplicate word
  - amf12 8y ago
    "If your app includes in-app purchase, subscriptions, virtual currency, billing functionality or captures financial information, the following requirements apply: 10.8.5: Your app may promote or distribute software only through the Microsoft Store" IANAL but based on the language, it means that if your "app" (including its metadata) promotes software (itself or other) it can only do it via the MS store. > 10.8.5: Your app Its your app and NOT "you". SO I take it as, you can still distribute it via other platforms. Had they meant it to what you say the language would have been "You may may promote or distribute this app only through the Microsoft Store"

nilsocket 8y ago

Yeah, they could have mentioned the same and got some exception.

executesorder66 8y ago

I'm loving the "new" microsoft.

std_throwaway 8y ago
I see many arguments incoming defending Microsoft and getting more or less visibility depending on the audience at the time. Something along the lines of: "Let's compare it to some competitor who also does it wrong. See they are not doing any better but they are not criticized as much. How can you complain about this company then? You can't. We must be glad for what they give us. See how much good they do and how little you have achieved compared to an international giant. If you really want to do better go make your own store. You can't? Obviously you can't. Then you can't criticize." But the bottom line is that all these companies are ruled by money first and foremost. Sure, there are differences in detail and the approach they take but in the end the logic of money trumps all morals. For the "new" Microsoft this means that they have changed their approach because of money. Whatever good they do for us is because they think it will make them money in the long run. I think of it as a long running PR action and a medium change of company culture. If it suits them, they will change it back over night. WE must keep them under pressure to do the right thing by not letting us be held hostage by monopolies and always having a way out. So support your open source software because in the long run it will dominate in most places.
m_fayer 8y ago
There are two new Microsofts, both trying to make great big piles of money. One is the tech infrastructure provider. They're keeping the corporate customers but now also going after consumer-facing tech and startups. To do the latter, they've finally had to shed their dogma and go where the devs are. OSS, platform-agnostic, this is the MS of .NET Core, VSCode, and family. There's good people working here, and they'll make Azure make heaps of money. The other Microsoft does "platforms". They've had a lock on corporate for a long time, though no one enjoyed it. Now they want to expand their brand and their lock-in into the personal lives of upper-class knowledge workers, challenging Apple by being the "serious" to Apple's luxury-hipster positioning, and challenging Google by being coherent and playing a long game. The first Microsoft knows that the second is no place for their audience, so they're in a hurry to separate themselves and their wares from the platform-provider. It's not just .NET Core and VSCode, there's a ton of smaller projects all moving in the same direction. Sql Operations Studio, Sql Server for Linux, Blazor, x-plat Azure tooling, x-plat Powershell, opensourcing MSBuild, it's comprehensive. I wish they'd just split and become two separate companies.
- styfle 8y ago
  Microsoft Windows vs Microsoft everything else?
- OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
  TLDR: Same shitty decisions made but it's different now because OMG the CLOUD (TM) (R).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

amf12 8y ago

I don't understand how this is outrageous. The terms do not say that you can't have other means of distribution just that you can't link to them through the MS app or the listing page. Its like you selling a product on Amazon with a link in the listing that says buy it from my website for a 10% discount. I'm sure Amazon won't allow that. Krita was asked to delete a link which points to the external download location and not the one to their website. Seems fair to me. Krita being a FOSS can have it available for free on the MS store and have a link to their donate page. If MS doesn't allow that, then it would be outrageous. The terms look to have been written to prevent abuse by devs. This being a FOSS might warrant special circumstances, but I wouldn't hold it against MS for not providing those special circumstances.

iamcreasy 8y ago
> The terms do not say that you can't have other means of distribution just that you can't link to them through the MS app or the listing page. That's not what the policy says. It says, if you app process some sort of payment(policy 10.8) then it has to be distributed only through MS Store(policy 10.8.5). Edit: removed duplicate word
- amf12 8y ago
  "If your app includes in-app purchase, subscriptions, virtual currency, billing functionality or captures financial information, the following requirements apply: 10.8.5: Your app may promote or distribute software only through the Microsoft Store" IANAL but based on the language, it means that if your "app" (including its metadata) promotes software (itself or other) it can only do it via the MS store. > 10.8.5: Your app Its your app and NOT "you". SO I take it as, you can still distribute it via other platforms. Had they meant it to what you say the language would have been "You may may promote or distribute this app only through the Microsoft Store"