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For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely lose it. But if I go up

For example, upgrade to the latest iPod Nano and whoa, no camera. So wait, if I get the old version I get a camera and now I completely lose it. But if I go up to the iPod touch I get the camera, but the classic line never had one? But this is a deliberate choice by Apple, not one forced on them by technology. And users understand that this year's iPod Nano is a different product from last year's, with different features. iPhone CDMA vs iPhone GSM is gibberish to them.

kenjackson 16y ago
I'm not sure if customers care about the distinction of confusion caused at the initiative of Apple versus that caused at the initiative of the "technology". Regarding GSM vs CDMA specifically, there is hardly been any type of outcry regarding voice/data on CDMA, even amongst people who move from GSM to CDMA. In fact, I've never herad anyone complain about it. The only real complaint I've heard about CDMA is that you can't use it anywere, except the USA and like three other countries. But no one says, "I can't use voice and data on my phone". In any case I think we're bickering about a meta issue. I really couldn't care less if Apple goes to Verizon or not. I'm not on Vertizon and I don't want an iPhone. What I do believe is that Apple has a very good understanding of what it means to go to Verizon.
- cletus 16y ago
  It doesn't come up because the US mobile phone market is almost completely balkanized: how many handsets are released in GSM and CDMA versions (or even that do both GSM and CDMA)? Hardly any. Buying a cell phone in the US basically means picking a carrier and then picking a handset. In almost every other country--and certainly those that are GSM based (including all of Europe and Australia)--have handsets that are interchangeable on networks. Why there aren't cross-technology phones (barring some minor exceptions) is exactly why Apple won't do it either. Particularly because CDMA is a dying technology anyway (at least in the developed world).
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    But people change carriers a fair bit. Churn is huge in the US. And yet almost no one picks one carrier over another due to this feature. The big CDMA carrier is bigger than the big GSM carrier. And the little CDMA carrier (Sprint) is bigger than the little GSM carrier (TMo). It's really a non-issue. And even the Samsung Galaxy S phones... read the reviews. While people talk about some differences on the phones, I haven't seen a single review mention the voice/data issue. And they just announced selling 5 million units in just a few months -- so its not exactly a niche phone. And a quick search brings up a ton of "Android Fragmentation" issues. They talk about everything from 1.4 vs 2.2. of Android to screen resolutions to keyboard/no keyboard to camera support, etc... I haven't found a mention of voice/data fragmentation. So if this is a problem that Apple would have it would be one that no one else in the industry has had to explain. I fully expect Apple's magic would make this the same non-issue it is for everyone else.
    - cletus 16y ago
      Apple isn't "most companies". That's kinda the point.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        My point is that I don't think the following conversation happened: CFO: "Hmm... we get an extra $30B in profit if we support Verizon, and effectively end Androids short run and block WP7 from ever breathing.." Jobs: "Screw it. This will mean that some customers will have voice/data and some won't. And while our current users can't touch their phone and make a call at the same time, and the fact that we're selling a neutered product in AppleTV, this is where I draw the line. Even if it means that we completely dominate the mobile space for here to eternity. I draw the line here." I just don't think it happened at Apple or at "most companies".

kenjackson 16y ago

I'm not sure if customers care about the distinction of confusion caused at the initiative of Apple versus that caused at the initiative of the "technology". Regarding GSM vs CDMA specifically, there is hardly been any type of outcry regarding voice/data on CDMA, even amongst people who move from GSM to CDMA. In fact, I've never herad anyone complain about it. The only real complaint I've heard about CDMA is that you can't use it anywere, except the USA and like three other countries. But no one says, "I can't use voice and data on my phone". In any case I think we're bickering about a meta issue. I really couldn't care less if Apple goes to Verizon or not. I'm not on Vertizon and I don't want an iPhone. What I do believe is that Apple has a very good understanding of what it means to go to Verizon.

cletus 16y ago
It doesn't come up because the US mobile phone market is almost completely balkanized: how many handsets are released in GSM and CDMA versions (or even that do both GSM and CDMA)? Hardly any. Buying a cell phone in the US basically means picking a carrier and then picking a handset. In almost every other country--and certainly those that are GSM based (including all of Europe and Australia)--have handsets that are interchangeable on networks. Why there aren't cross-technology phones (barring some minor exceptions) is exactly why Apple won't do it either. Particularly because CDMA is a dying technology anyway (at least in the developed world).
- kenjackson 16y ago
  But people change carriers a fair bit. Churn is huge in the US. And yet almost no one picks one carrier over another due to this feature. The big CDMA carrier is bigger than the big GSM carrier. And the little CDMA carrier (Sprint) is bigger than the little GSM carrier (TMo). It's really a non-issue. And even the Samsung Galaxy S phones... read the reviews. While people talk about some differences on the phones, I haven't seen a single review mention the voice/data issue. And they just announced selling 5 million units in just a few months -- so its not exactly a niche phone. And a quick search brings up a ton of "Android Fragmentation" issues. They talk about everything from 1.4 vs 2.2. of Android to screen resolutions to keyboard/no keyboard to camera support, etc... I haven't found a mention of voice/data fragmentation. So if this is a problem that Apple would have it would be one that no one else in the industry has had to explain. I fully expect Apple's magic would make this the same non-issue it is for everyone else.
  - cletus 16y ago
    Apple isn't "most companies". That's kinda the point.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      My point is that I don't think the following conversation happened: CFO: "Hmm... we get an extra $30B in profit if we support Verizon, and effectively end Androids short run and block WP7 from ever breathing.." Jobs: "Screw it. This will mean that some customers will have voice/data and some won't. And while our current users can't touch their phone and make a call at the same time, and the fact that we're selling a neutered product in AppleTV, this is where I draw the line. Even if it means that we completely dominate the mobile space for here to eternity. I draw the line here." I just don't think it happened at Apple or at "most companies".