5 ms·

I:was really confused for a second, until I realized they must mean Bussard ramjets, because standard ramjets are very much in use and lived up to the hype. It’

I:was really confused for a second, until I realized they must mean Bussard ramjets, because standard ramjets are very much in use and lived up to the hype. It’s a good article, although I still disagree with some of it. In particular... NAFAL trips mean crossing time as well as space. But that shouldn’t prevent exploration; anyone who would consider racing off that far into the future probably wouldn’t have friends and relatives about whom they deeply cared in any case. Maybe, but subjectively a few years into your journey when tens of thousands of years have passed on Earth, and you’ve been totally forgotten, your technology is equivalent to rocks banging together, maybe you’d care? When you arrive in a subjective 30+ years and millions of years passed on Earth and people aren’t even remotely human anymore, and you’re a relic of a relic its going to be weird. Who are you exploring for exactly? Not humanity, they moved in without you, so unless it’s purely about starting a colony it’s a pointless exercise. Even more galling would be the result you’d encounter if FTL turns out to be viable, unlikely as that seems today. You arrive in Andromeda only to discover that human colonized it a million+ years before your arrival. Whoops. Relativity is a stone cold bitch.

lnanek2 8y ago
A lot of those issues play fun roles in this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36510759-the-freeze-frame-revolution https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36510759-the-freeze-fram...
Sir_Substance 8y ago
>Relativity is a stone cold bitch. Really? That sounds straight up awesome to me. After a few years of shore leave, I'd be tempted to grab one of the most reliable FTL ships, pack myself full on longevity treatments and then turn around and go again. See what humanity is like in another few million years. If it all goes to shit at least I'll have an FTL ship with me to go wandering around with. All things considered, this might be a really good way of securing the existence of the human race, too. Send out one or two of these per millenia, as high speed stasis pods to refound humanity if it all goes horribly wrong in the mean time.
- DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
  Do you want Planet of The Apes? Because this is how you get Planet of The Apes!
- enra 8y ago
  If interested in the concept, V. Vinge's Across Realtime books, mainly Maroneed in Realtime explores this concept. Humanity invents stasis bubbles (time stands still inside or almost still), and you can bubble yourself, ships, towns etc for any amount of years. Essentially you can time travel but only forward.
  - KineticLensman 8y ago
    Spoilers... Marooned in Realtime has multiple groups of people travelling into the future, all having set out before a mysterious event that wiped out the rest oh humanity. They experience the evolution of the Earth, but the only human civilisation they experience is that of their fellow travelers. 'The Forever War' (referenced elsewhere here) in contrast has individuals who dip into evolving human civilisation, finding massive societal changes each time they return, so much so that 'home' becomes the time jumping army they belong to.
- cpeterso 8y ago
  Alastair Reynolds' House of Suns tells a similar story. A family of 1,000 clones split up to tour the galaxy and reunite every 200,000 years. Since they live lone, solitary lives off the grid, they witness from afar many civilizations rising and dying. I found it much more interesting than Reynolds' bone-dry Revelation Space series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Suns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Suns
  - claytoneast 8y ago
    Seconded, I just finished a re-read of House of Suns. I also very much enjoyed Revelation Space.
- anonymfus 8y ago
teekert 8y ago
I like how Pandora's Star starts... Humanity finally arrives on Mars, with much grandeur, to find a dude standing there connected to an air hose that leads through a wormhole to a lab in California.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  I like that the astronaut holds a mild grudge.
- Arn_Thor 8y ago
  I'd just like to add how terrific Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained are! And the following Void Trilogy was pretty good as well, though the latter two books got little weird.
  - teekert 8y ago
    I love them as well, but everything in the void feels more like fantasy to me and I always start yearning for the parts in normal space. I didn't finish the latest books (The Chronicle of the Fallers). I just want quantum mind uploading post physical planet scourging space ship battles. Not that telekinesis stuff.
enra 8y ago
On the site the article links to at the end, it talks about this "jumping the gun" problem. The Wait Calculation allows future space explorers to avoid the "jumping the gun" problem (and also avoid being paralyzed with indecision by terror of jumping the gun). The equation shows that, assuming technology develops in such a way that there is exponential growth in the velocity of travel, there is an optimal departure time for arriving earliest. Kennedy states that the equation applies even if somebody invents faster-than-light travel.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  That seems like a HUGE assumption, though.
pavel_lishin 8y ago
I would like to recommend Peter Watts' "The Freeze-Frame Revolution", and its related short stories on his blog. It deals with a very, very long term project at relativistic speeds. http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?cat=57 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?cat=57 http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_TheIsland.pdf http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_TheIsland.pdf

lnanek2 8y ago

A lot of those issues play fun roles in this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36510759-the-freeze-frame-revolution https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36510759-the-freeze-fram...

Sir_Substance 8y ago

>Relativity is a stone cold bitch. Really? That sounds straight up awesome to me. After a few years of shore leave, I'd be tempted to grab one of the most reliable FTL ships, pack myself full on longevity treatments and then turn around and go again. See what humanity is like in another few million years. If it all goes to shit at least I'll have an FTL ship with me to go wandering around with. All things considered, this might be a really good way of securing the existence of the human race, too. Send out one or two of these per millenia, as high speed stasis pods to refound humanity if it all goes horribly wrong in the mean time.

DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
Do you want Planet of The Apes? Because this is how you get Planet of The Apes!
enra 8y ago
If interested in the concept, V. Vinge's Across Realtime books, mainly Maroneed in Realtime explores this concept. Humanity invents stasis bubbles (time stands still inside or almost still), and you can bubble yourself, ships, towns etc for any amount of years. Essentially you can time travel but only forward.
- KineticLensman 8y ago
  Spoilers... Marooned in Realtime has multiple groups of people travelling into the future, all having set out before a mysterious event that wiped out the rest oh humanity. They experience the evolution of the Earth, but the only human civilisation they experience is that of their fellow travelers. 'The Forever War' (referenced elsewhere here) in contrast has individuals who dip into evolving human civilisation, finding massive societal changes each time they return, so much so that 'home' becomes the time jumping army they belong to.
cpeterso 8y ago
Alastair Reynolds' House of Suns tells a similar story. A family of 1,000 clones split up to tour the galaxy and reunite every 200,000 years. Since they live lone, solitary lives off the grid, they witness from afar many civilizations rising and dying. I found it much more interesting than Reynolds' bone-dry Revelation Space series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Suns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Suns
- claytoneast 8y ago
  Seconded, I just finished a re-read of House of Suns. I also very much enjoyed Revelation Space.
anonymfus 8y ago

teekert 8y ago

I like how Pandora's Star starts... Humanity finally arrives on Mars, with much grandeur, to find a dude standing there connected to an air hose that leads through a wormhole to a lab in California.

noir_lord 8y ago
I like that the astronaut holds a mild grudge.
Arn_Thor 8y ago
I'd just like to add how terrific Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained are! And the following Void Trilogy was pretty good as well, though the latter two books got little weird.
- teekert 8y ago
  I love them as well, but everything in the void feels more like fantasy to me and I always start yearning for the parts in normal space. I didn't finish the latest books (The Chronicle of the Fallers). I just want quantum mind uploading post physical planet scourging space ship battles. Not that telekinesis stuff.

enra 8y ago

On the site the article links to at the end, it talks about this "jumping the gun" problem. The Wait Calculation allows future space explorers to avoid the "jumping the gun" problem (and also avoid being paralyzed with indecision by terror of jumping the gun). The equation shows that, assuming technology develops in such a way that there is exponential growth in the velocity of travel, there is an optimal departure time for arriving earliest. Kennedy states that the equation applies even if somebody invents faster-than-light travel.

rsynnott 8y ago
That seems like a HUGE assumption, though.

pavel_lishin 8y ago

I would like to recommend Peter Watts' "The Freeze-Frame Revolution", and its related short stories on his blog. It deals with a very, very long term project at relativistic speeds. http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?cat=57 http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?cat=57 http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_TheIsland.pdf http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_TheIsland.pdf