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Code reviews are generally public and visible to the entire team and often even to other teams. While it's true that the reviewee may not be able to distinguish

by nilkn 8y ago

Code reviews are generally public and visible to the entire team and often even to other teams. While it's true that the reviewee may not be able to distinguish the two cases being considered, there may be other developers on the team or in the company who witness the review and can make the distinction. In fact, this can cause the "toxic reviewing" practice to spread to other experienced senior developers, who may see others with similar positions doing the same thing and then feel they must do it too in order to signal that they are, in fact, senior.

Drdrdrq 8y ago
Interesting - I thought you would end the argument differently. In my experience additional visibility helps curb the unwanted behaviour because other senior devs step in and help fight it - but I guess that depends on the general culture in the company. If that doesn't happen you have bigger problems anyway.
- nilkn 8y ago
  I do believe that code review culture ends up being a reflection of general company culture. In a healthy culture, visibility tends to spread the positive part of what's observable, whereas in a toxic culture visibility tends to spread the negative and political parts of what's observable. And there's definitely a circularity here. In a healthy culture, code reviews tend not to be overly political in the first place, so it would stand out like a sore thumb if someone was causing a lot of unnecessary drama with their reviews. Likewise, in a toxic culture, code reviews may go from healthy to toxic and dramatic because developers have been incentivized to compete with one another in counterproductive ways.
  - KKKKkkkk1 8y ago
    As an engineer, how do you address this sort of mutually-reinforcing jerkery? I expect that complaining to the manager will not be effective because the culprits are not explicitly hostile.
    - Drdrdrq 8y ago
      Easiest way? Complain, look for another job, quit. There is no way you can change the culture from bottom up. Best you can achieve is make a bubble with your close coworkers where you cover each other - but even that is temporary and can be broken by management anytime. Sorry. But there are many companies with better culture out there...
daveFNbuck 8y ago
I've never been in a work environment where senior developers are so insecure about their seniority. How can a junior developer tell the difference between this scenario and one where senior developers are making good comments on code reviews that junior developers don't see the value of?

by nilkn 8y ago

Drdrdrq 8y ago

Interesting - I thought you would end the argument differently. In my experience additional visibility helps curb the unwanted behaviour because other senior devs step in and help fight it - but I guess that depends on the general culture in the company. If that doesn't happen you have bigger problems anyway.

nilkn 8y ago
I do believe that code review culture ends up being a reflection of general company culture. In a healthy culture, visibility tends to spread the positive part of what's observable, whereas in a toxic culture visibility tends to spread the negative and political parts of what's observable. And there's definitely a circularity here. In a healthy culture, code reviews tend not to be overly political in the first place, so it would stand out like a sore thumb if someone was causing a lot of unnecessary drama with their reviews. Likewise, in a toxic culture, code reviews may go from healthy to toxic and dramatic because developers have been incentivized to compete with one another in counterproductive ways.
- KKKKkkkk1 8y ago
  As an engineer, how do you address this sort of mutually-reinforcing jerkery? I expect that complaining to the manager will not be effective because the culprits are not explicitly hostile.
  - Drdrdrq 8y ago
    Easiest way? Complain, look for another job, quit. There is no way you can change the culture from bottom up. Best you can achieve is make a bubble with your close coworkers where you cover each other - but even that is temporary and can be broken by management anytime. Sorry. But there are many companies with better culture out there...

daveFNbuck 8y ago

I've never been in a work environment where senior developers are so insecure about their seniority. How can a junior developer tell the difference between this scenario and one where senior developers are making good comments on code reviews that junior developers don't see the value of?