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As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give them a sh

As an American I would be happy to see someone else take responsibility. If China thinks they can somehow bring stability to the Middle East then give them a shot. At least when they inevitably descend into chaos again it wont be us having to babysit. I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors

astebbin 8y ago
>I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors Could you elaborate on this? My impression was that China has recently been bullying its neighbors, particularly Vietnam and to some extent the Philippines, over oil and gas deposits in the South China Sea. I can't imagine that's great for regional stability. I also wonder if many Americans would want China to take on a leadership role with respect to Taiwan. I doubt the Taiwanese would take such a view.
- Leary 8y ago
  Border tensions is only a minor part of life in Asia, one that is over reported by western media. Trade and infrastructure are more important concerns.
  - simmanian 8y ago
    Could you elaborate? My take is that border tensions are definitely related to trade and it's not taken lightly by any Asian nation.
  - rando_supreme 8y ago
    I don't mean to call you out... but for an 11 day old account, you seem to have a fair amount of pro China trolling material posted. Why would border tensions be "over reported." It's a matter of allied sovereignty?
- jewelthief91 8y ago
  How do the American people benefit from protecting Vietnam and the Philippines? Not to sound trollish, but I genuinely do not see why spending billions in the region and antagonizing China really helps us.
  - astebbin 8y ago
    As I understand it, an enormous percentage of global trade sails through the South China Sea. From a pragmatic standpoint, it behooves American interests to support the Vietnamese and Philippine territorial claims so that one nation (China) does not militarily and/or politically dominate such a vital trade route. From an idealistic standpoint, America supports the notions of state sovereignty and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea simply out of principle. Like Apple’s stance on customer data privacy, the U.S. government defends freedom as a matter of pragmatism first, and then talks up the altruistic angle :)
grezql 8y ago
China is a mass-copying, intelectual property stealing, communist dictatorship. The other countries in Asia dont like them. China is the mordor of Asia
- Leary 8y ago
  http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-2-chinas-image/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-2-chinas-image/
- hupe_ 8y ago
  This us VS them mentality, amplified/reinforced by social media, 24*7 news, celebs, politicians et al is doing the most unnecessary damage.
  - grezql 8y ago
    who do you mean by 'us'? I was born in one of the asian countries China is trying to influence with its cheap plastic copies. Everything they touch there is ruined.
- dang 8y ago
  Nationalistic flamewar will get your account banned here. Can you please not post like this to HN? You did it elsewhere recently as well, which is a problem. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - grezql 8y ago
    fine
posting2fast 8y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17644657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17644657 > The Uighurs see themselves as a minority facing cultural, religious and economic discrimination. When Xinjiang was incorporated into the People's Republic of China in 1949, they comprised roughly 80 percent of the region's population. Controlled migration to Xinjiang of Han Chinese has reduced this share to 45 percent [..] > Anyone with a potentially suspicious data trail can be detained. The government has built up a grid of hundreds of re-education camps. Tens of thousands of people have disappeared into them in recent months. Zenz estimates the number to be closer to hundreds of thousands. More precise figures are difficult to obtain. Censorship in Xinjiang is the strictest in China and its authorities the most inscrutable. [..] > Normal journalistic research in Kashgar is inconceivable. No one wants to talk. A Uighur human rights activist who met up with us four years ago didn't respond to a single one of our text messages. His phone number is no longer listed. As we later learned, he disappeared months ago. But whether he was thrown into a re-education camp or prison is unknown. [..] > Every family begins with 100 points, one person affected by the system tells us. But anyone with contacts or relatives abroad, especially in Islamic countries like Turkey, Egypt or Malaysia, is punished by losing points. A person with fewer than 60 points is in danger. One wrong word, a prayer or one telephone call too many and they could be sent to "school" in no time. Bring "stability" to the Middle East? What the US did and does in the Middle East is not something any other nation can solve for them; bring those who waged wars of aggression to justice, show genuine good will towards those you mistreated, that's something any nation owes either way (it's not like many European nations don't have a lot to make up for, for example). You're responsible for not making it worse, and owning your shit. That's not just what "number one" must do, even the smallest must do it. Others are responsible for sorting out their mess. You don't have to bring peace to the Middle East, just not more war. You don't have to bring democracy to China, just don't look the other way or even help rationalize and justify it.
- candiodari 8y ago
  > You don't have to bring democracy to China, just don't look the other way or even help rationalize and justify it. And isn't that exactly what most nations are doing ? Especially European countries and the EU, and more so as time goes on.

astebbin 8y ago

>I think many Americans are hoping China tries to take a leadership role in Asia and near neighbors Could you elaborate on this? My impression was that China has recently been bullying its neighbors, particularly Vietnam and to some extent the Philippines, over oil and gas deposits in the South China Sea. I can't imagine that's great for regional stability. I also wonder if many Americans would want China to take on a leadership role with respect to Taiwan. I doubt the Taiwanese would take such a view.

Leary 8y ago
Border tensions is only a minor part of life in Asia, one that is over reported by western media. Trade and infrastructure are more important concerns.
- simmanian 8y ago
  Could you elaborate? My take is that border tensions are definitely related to trade and it's not taken lightly by any Asian nation.
- rando_supreme 8y ago
  I don't mean to call you out... but for an 11 day old account, you seem to have a fair amount of pro China trolling material posted. Why would border tensions be "over reported." It's a matter of allied sovereignty?
jewelthief91 8y ago
How do the American people benefit from protecting Vietnam and the Philippines? Not to sound trollish, but I genuinely do not see why spending billions in the region and antagonizing China really helps us.
- astebbin 8y ago
  As I understand it, an enormous percentage of global trade sails through the South China Sea. From a pragmatic standpoint, it behooves American interests to support the Vietnamese and Philippine territorial claims so that one nation (China) does not militarily and/or politically dominate such a vital trade route. From an idealistic standpoint, America supports the notions of state sovereignty and the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea simply out of principle. Like Apple’s stance on customer data privacy, the U.S. government defends freedom as a matter of pragmatism first, and then talks up the altruistic angle :)

grezql 8y ago

China is a mass-copying, intelectual property stealing, communist dictatorship. The other countries in Asia dont like them. China is the mordor of Asia

Leary 8y ago
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-2-chinas-image/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-2-chinas-image/
hupe_ 8y ago
This us VS them mentality, amplified/reinforced by social media, 24*7 news, celebs, politicians et al is doing the most unnecessary damage.
- grezql 8y ago
  who do you mean by 'us'? I was born in one of the asian countries China is trying to influence with its cheap plastic copies. Everything they touch there is ruined.
dang 8y ago
Nationalistic flamewar will get your account banned here. Can you please not post like this to HN? You did it elsewhere recently as well, which is a problem. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- grezql 8y ago
  fine

posting2fast 8y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17644657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17644657 > The Uighurs see themselves as a minority facing cultural, religious and economic discrimination. When Xinjiang was incorporated into the People's Republic of China in 1949, they comprised roughly 80 percent of the region's population. Controlled migration to Xinjiang of Han Chinese has reduced this share to 45 percent [..] > Anyone with a potentially suspicious data trail can be detained. The government has built up a grid of hundreds of re-education camps. Tens of thousands of people have disappeared into them in recent months. Zenz estimates the number to be closer to hundreds of thousands. More precise figures are difficult to obtain. Censorship in Xinjiang is the strictest in China and its authorities the most inscrutable. [..] > Normal journalistic research in Kashgar is inconceivable. No one wants to talk. A Uighur human rights activist who met up with us four years ago didn't respond to a single one of our text messages. His phone number is no longer listed. As we later learned, he disappeared months ago. But whether he was thrown into a re-education camp or prison is unknown. [..] > Every family begins with 100 points, one person affected by the system tells us. But anyone with contacts or relatives abroad, especially in Islamic countries like Turkey, Egypt or Malaysia, is punished by losing points. A person with fewer than 60 points is in danger. One wrong word, a prayer or one telephone call too many and they could be sent to "school" in no time. Bring "stability" to the Middle East? What the US did and does in the Middle East is not something any other nation can solve for them; bring those who waged wars of aggression to justice, show genuine good will towards those you mistreated, that's something any nation owes either way (it's not like many European nations don't have a lot to make up for, for example). You're responsible for not making it worse, and owning your shit. That's not just what "number one" must do, even the smallest must do it. Others are responsible for sorting out their mess. You don't have to bring peace to the Middle East, just not more war. You don't have to bring democracy to China, just don't look the other way or even help rationalize and justify it.

candiodari 8y ago
> You don't have to bring democracy to China, just don't look the other way or even help rationalize and justify it. And isn't that exactly what most nations are doing ? Especially European countries and the EU, and more so as time goes on.