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>Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-

>Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols So, do you or don't you want know what neopagans think? On one side, you disregard all anecdotes. The other side, you want to know said anecdotes. I'm beginning to think this an insincere request. I know very few whom would answer that kind of question. Tl;Dr. Go look up occult books on symbolism. There's a lot of them. Perhaps that would be more up your alley.

Torwald 8y ago
The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
  - Torwald 8y ago
    Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      I doubt Wicca would have did anything like that. Gardner founded Gardnerian Wicca back in the 1950s. Alexanderian Wicca soon was after that. Historically, Gardner was looking at creating a naturalistic Thelema. A lot of whoopie witches glomed onto that and turned it into crystal toting fairies kind of religion. I know of the Gnostic Mass from Thelema, but again, theres nothing like what you're describing. Similar, with the Golden Dawn, or Theosophy, or Enochian magic - There's nothing like what you describe. You do say "witches" which I will assume European magical tradition. My first reaction is that what you say is akin to "telephone game" and stories so convoluted that its just a horror story. I can ask some of my sources whom know more, but this doesn't sound like a credible story.
      - Torwald 8y ago
        I don't think it is a horror story. If true, it would be a way to deal with the past. I think this is a standard in religion, to walk a way on which you deal with your own past up to a state of completion. I can see that a dealing with a now unwelcome Christian past is a theme in Wicca, because it is a Western movement. Therefor most practitioners would have a Western past in one way or another. If it is not too costly for you and you can find something out, I would be thankful. Maybe even only a comparison with other existing Wiccan rituals to deal with the past.
    - krapp 8y ago
      It doesn't happen. Plenty of people turn from Christianity to paganism, it's actually a popular way for edgy Christian kids to rebel, particularly in the American south where there's a particular stigma against "devil stuff." I know a few such people, and I've never heard of anyone having to do any rituals to "renounce" their faith, nor have I ever heard of the "peace sign as broken cross" being used as a symbol in any ritual. But then, as you doubt sources from Wiccans, so I don't know what else to tell you. These religions aren't hiding anything, there's an entire section of pagan and neopagan books at any bookstore, you can do research online, or probably find some pagans near you and talk to them. They'll tell you the same thing I'm telling you. In fact, I'll help you out... start here: http://witchvox.com/ http://witchvox.com/

Torwald 8y ago

The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
- Torwald 8y ago
  Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    I doubt Wicca would have did anything like that. Gardner founded Gardnerian Wicca back in the 1950s. Alexanderian Wicca soon was after that. Historically, Gardner was looking at creating a naturalistic Thelema. A lot of whoopie witches glomed onto that and turned it into crystal toting fairies kind of religion. I know of the Gnostic Mass from Thelema, but again, theres nothing like what you're describing. Similar, with the Golden Dawn, or Theosophy, or Enochian magic - There's nothing like what you describe. You do say "witches" which I will assume European magical tradition. My first reaction is that what you say is akin to "telephone game" and stories so convoluted that its just a horror story. I can ask some of my sources whom know more, but this doesn't sound like a credible story.
    - Torwald 8y ago
      I don't think it is a horror story. If true, it would be a way to deal with the past. I think this is a standard in religion, to walk a way on which you deal with your own past up to a state of completion. I can see that a dealing with a now unwelcome Christian past is a theme in Wicca, because it is a Western movement. Therefor most practitioners would have a Western past in one way or another. If it is not too costly for you and you can find something out, I would be thankful. Maybe even only a comparison with other existing Wiccan rituals to deal with the past.
  - krapp 8y ago
    It doesn't happen. Plenty of people turn from Christianity to paganism, it's actually a popular way for edgy Christian kids to rebel, particularly in the American south where there's a particular stigma against "devil stuff." I know a few such people, and I've never heard of anyone having to do any rituals to "renounce" their faith, nor have I ever heard of the "peace sign as broken cross" being used as a symbol in any ritual. But then, as you doubt sources from Wiccans, so I don't know what else to tell you. These religions aren't hiding anything, there's an entire section of pagan and neopagan books at any bookstore, you can do research online, or probably find some pagans near you and talk to them. They'll tell you the same thing I'm telling you. In fact, I'll help you out... start here: http://witchvox.com/ http://witchvox.com/