4 ms·

> No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. Unless you know

> No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols. > Maybe take a minute on Google and try to find out what practitioners of other religions believe about themselves, rather than what their enemies believe about them. You seem to imply I am a "modern right-wing Evangelical"? Maybe you could spare me your aggressions against these and stop being condescending towards me and instead help me out with the subject matter at hand? You seem to be knowledgeable about these things (maybe).

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
>Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols So, do you or don't you want know what neopagans think? On one side, you disregard all anecdotes. The other side, you want to know said anecdotes. I'm beginning to think this an insincere request. I know very few whom would answer that kind of question. Tl;Dr. Go look up occult books on symbolism. There's a lot of them. Perhaps that would be more up your alley.
- Torwald 8y ago
  The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
    - Torwald 8y ago
      Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc
      - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
        I doubt Wicca would have did anything like that. Gardner founded Gardnerian Wicca back in the 1950s. Alexanderian Wicca soon was after that. Historically, Gardner was looking at creating a naturalistic Thelema. A lot of whoopie witches glomed onto that and turned it into crystal toting fairies kind of religion. I know of the Gnostic Mass from Thelema, but again, theres nothing like what you're describing. Similar, with the Golden Dawn, or Theosophy, or Enochian magic - There's nothing like what you describe. You do say "witches" which I will assume European magical tradition. My first reaction is that what you say is akin to "telephone game" and stories so convoluted that its just a horror story. I can ask some of my sources whom know more, but this doesn't sound like a credible story.
        Torwald 8y ago
        I don't think it is a horror story. If true, it would be a way to deal with the past. I think this is a standard in religion, to walk a way on which you deal with your own past up to a state of completion. I can see that a dealing with a now unwelcome Christian past is a theme in Wicca, because it is a Western movement. Therefor most practitioners would have a Western past in one way or another. If it is not too costly for you and you can find something out, I would be thankful. Maybe even only a comparison with other existing Wiccan rituals to deal with the past.
krapp 8y ago
A but late but I feel like I should respond to this: >Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? "I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians" seems to imply that such a ritual would be a common occurrence, which is what I was addressing. >You seem to imply I am a "modern right-wing Evangelical"? No, I just thought you picked something up from them. To be perfectly honest, I assumed it was something created to disparage the anti-war/hippie movement (linking the peace symbol, and by extension, the peace movement, to something unwholesome by implying the symbol has a secret anti-Christian meaning) and just got transferred to beliefs about Wiccans/witches somehow. But apparently it is a Satanist ritual, so my (partial) mistake. >Maybe you could spare me your aggressions against these and stop being condescending towards me and instead help me out with the subject matter at hand? I didn't mean to be aggressive... but this was literally something you could solve with a Google search.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

>Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols So, do you or don't you want know what neopagans think? On one side, you disregard all anecdotes. The other side, you want to know said anecdotes. I'm beginning to think this an insincere request. I know very few whom would answer that kind of question. Tl;Dr. Go look up occult books on symbolism. There's a lot of them. Perhaps that would be more up your alley.

Torwald 8y ago
The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
  - Torwald 8y ago
    Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      I doubt Wicca would have did anything like that. Gardner founded Gardnerian Wicca back in the 1950s. Alexanderian Wicca soon was after that. Historically, Gardner was looking at creating a naturalistic Thelema. A lot of whoopie witches glomed onto that and turned it into crystal toting fairies kind of religion. I know of the Gnostic Mass from Thelema, but again, theres nothing like what you're describing. Similar, with the Golden Dawn, or Theosophy, or Enochian magic - There's nothing like what you describe. You do say "witches" which I will assume European magical tradition. My first reaction is that what you say is akin to "telephone game" and stories so convoluted that its just a horror story. I can ask some of my sources whom know more, but this doesn't sound like a credible story.
      - Torwald 8y ago
        I don't think it is a horror story. If true, it would be a way to deal with the past. I think this is a standard in religion, to walk a way on which you deal with your own past up to a state of completion. I can see that a dealing with a now unwelcome Christian past is a theme in Wicca, because it is a Western movement. Therefor most practitioners would have a Western past in one way or another. If it is not too costly for you and you can find something out, I would be thankful. Maybe even only a comparison with other existing Wiccan rituals to deal with the past.

krapp 8y ago

A but late but I feel like I should respond to this: >Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? "I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians" seems to imply that such a ritual would be a common occurrence, which is what I was addressing. >You seem to imply I am a "modern right-wing Evangelical"? No, I just thought you picked something up from them. To be perfectly honest, I assumed it was something created to disparage the anti-war/hippie movement (linking the peace symbol, and by extension, the peace movement, to something unwholesome by implying the symbol has a secret anti-Christian meaning) and just got transferred to beliefs about Wiccans/witches somehow. But apparently it is a Satanist ritual, so my (partial) mistake. >Maybe you could spare me your aggressions against these and stop being condescending towards me and instead help me out with the subject matter at hand? I didn't mean to be aggressive... but this was literally something you could solve with a Google search.