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> One can not have freedom with out privacy. Why is that? I want both, but I think they are different things.

cinquemb 8y ago
Sometimes I think people conflate freedom to mean that ones/or others actions/words are free from consequences now and forever more into the future… or want something without taking sufficient steps to insure something or at least be honest that one may not be completely free because of their lack of ability to insure agaisnt some downside. With respect to technology, it seems like there's this expectation among some that one can be completely ignorant of the tools at the same time expecting such tools to be completely beholden to ones wishes. Some people think clicking a few buttons gives them privacy… others think putting those who could exploit their privacy 6 feet under gives them privacy (sometimes with the backing of a nation state or several)… and in the real world, both of those solutions aren't 100% effective. Richard Posner wrote about this in 1978 way better than I can today (and in much greater detail)[0] [0] http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=lectures_pre_arch_lectures_sibley http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...
syshum 8y ago
How can you be free if you are under continual surveillance your ever action judged in real time on mass, your ever past action judged based on the current feelings of the day, your every comment, word spoken, person you interacted with, etc judged and recriminated on a on going basis. Every movement monitored, every interaction recorded. Are you free in such a society? I say no....
- Bromskloss 8y ago
  I take "free" to mean that no one else decides what I should do.
  - syshum 8y ago
    So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do you have freedom because you have a choice to choose??? No one is deciding if you should choose to give up your money That may be hyperbolic but it is the logical conclusion to your statement. This same argument is used by people to justify their mob mentality when going after people for wrong think and target their employment, and business relationships while claiming to support free speech believing that free speech is only violated if government is censoring I reject this idea that freedom is only limited by governments
    - Bromskloss 8y ago
      > So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do you have freedom because you have a choice to choose??? That would be a prototypical case of _not_ being free.

Sometimes I think people conflate freedom to mean that ones/or others actions/words are free from consequences now and forever more into the future… or want something without taking sufficient steps to insure something or at least be honest that one may not be completely free because of their lack of ability to insure agaisnt some downside. With respect to technology, it seems like there's this expectation among some that one can be completely ignorant of the tools at the same time expecting such tools to be completely beholden to ones wishes. Some people think clicking a few buttons gives them privacy… others think putting those who could exploit their privacy 6 feet under gives them privacy (sometimes with the backing of a nation state or several)… and in the real world, both of those solutions aren't 100% effective. Richard Posner wrote about this in 1978 way better than I can today (and in much greater detail)[0] [0] http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=lectures_pre_arch_lectures_sibley http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...

syshum 8y ago

How can you be free if you are under continual surveillance your ever action judged in real time on mass, your ever past action judged based on the current feelings of the day, your every comment, word spoken, person you interacted with, etc judged and recriminated on a on going basis. Every movement monitored, every interaction recorded. Are you free in such a society? I say no....

Bromskloss 8y ago
I take "free" to mean that no one else decides what I should do.
- syshum 8y ago
  So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do you have freedom because you have a choice to choose??? No one is deciding if you should choose to give up your money That may be hyperbolic but it is the logical conclusion to your statement. This same argument is used by people to justify their mob mentality when going after people for wrong think and target their employment, and business relationships while claiming to support free speech believing that free speech is only violated if government is censoring I reject this idea that freedom is only limited by governments
  - Bromskloss 8y ago
    > So if a mugger has a gun to your head and say "Your money or your life" do you have freedom because you have a choice to choose??? That would be a prototypical case of _not_ being free.